Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Stamp Community Forum
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Why are these PSE certs different?  
 

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...

United States
709 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   3:54 pm  Show Profile Check KRelyea's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add KRelyea to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I was looking at an eBay item and decided to check on a cert that was shown. The eBay cert shows Grade 70 but the PSE database shows the stamp as ungraded? I also noticed other little differences. Does anybody know if this is legitimate?

eBay;




PSE Database;




Thanks

Ken
Send note to Staff

Valued Member
United States
238 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   4:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ananthveerappan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The eBay one looks more convincing though !
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
133 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   5:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add howell1018 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not an expert, but my guess is the owner submitted the stamp fearful of the grade he was going to get, but confident that it was genuine, so he paid for a graded and ungraded cert in case the graded one was not good enough they could discard the graded cert. Apparently they were good with the 7. Either that or I'm totally wrong.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
133 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   5:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add howell1018 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I looked again. I think I'm totally wrong.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
849 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   9:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps the image from the PSE database, which is apparently just a template and not a scan or replica of the actual issued certificate, simply had incorrect or incomplete data entered. User error.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3404 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   11:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Can one be a paper cert. and the other is a digital scan off their computer files .
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
277 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   11:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As the graded certificate includes "grading matters.com" in the masthead it is probably a later certificate even though the dates are the same. I would assume that PSE failed to update their computer records.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
709 Posts
Posted 02/14/2018   12:27 am  Show Profile Check KRelyea's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KRelyea to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
On the PSE website there is a Cert Verification page with this:




The result of this search is what I show.

Here are a couple more examples;













Note the Luxembourg #4. Grade VF-XF 85, Mint OGnh and under that

"it is genuine used" I guess PSE was having a really bad day.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United Kingdom
921 Posts
Posted 02/14/2018   02:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tim H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Alarm bells should be ringing here. The expertising committees of every certifying authority has rules about what is to appear as a minimum in the certificate. A certifying authority quite simply does not "have a bad day" even though the grading itself is, by definition, a subjective process.

It would be well worth checking directly with someone on the PSE expertising committee about this before going further.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Tim H - 02/14/2018 03:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3606 Posts
Posted 02/14/2018   03:28 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The problem is that the PSE cert verification pages do NOT show images of the actual paper certs. Rather they are virtual "reconstructions" of the cert information. The frames, PSE logo, and stamp image are individual image files and all of the text are actual text characters.

It looks like they are using Adobe Muse embedded PDF technology and there are mismatches or data errors.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
709 Posts
Posted 02/14/2018   08:51 am  Show Profile Check KRelyea's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KRelyea to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The "used/OGNH stamp is shown on both the paper and electronic version.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1625 Posts
Posted 02/16/2018   9:46 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don;t recall ever seeing a paper cert saying Grade: Ungraded
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Moderator
Learn More...
4819 Posts
Posted 02/17/2018   02:30 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dan is correct. PSE obviously has a database which contains the certification info. When faced with the issue of publishing the certs online, which would you do?
1. Scan and post every single paper cert
2. Build a single software equivalent (template) of a cert and then populate it the existing data in the database?

One of the biggest aspects of using a foundational database to publish content online is that you do not have to code and write every single page. Say, for example, you wanted to publish a webpage for each stamp for a country and the country has issued 4500 stamps. Would you want to code and maintain 4500 separate web pages (one for each stamp)? Or would you write one webpage which populates itself with data from a database when a request is made to view a certain stamp? Kind of a no-brainer for them to do this correctly with a database.
Don

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
2717 Posts
Posted 02/17/2018   08:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One has an embossed seal on the upper left corner while the other one does not. I would trust the one with the embossed seal more.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 02/17/2018 09:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3606 Posts
Posted 02/17/2018   09:31 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a case where PSE's intent to "simulate" the certificate, while well-intentioned, was misguided, as we can see based on all of the resulting confusion in this thread. It would have been far better had they taken the PF's approach, which is to clearly post just the stamp image and the text opinion, and not worry about all the extraneous imagery. People can't tell images of the real paper certs from the virtual reconstructions.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
709 Posts
Posted 02/17/2018   2:42 pm  Show Profile Check KRelyea's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KRelyea to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I didn't start this topic to pick on the PSE. I was looking at a collection on eBay;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MASSIVE-IN....m1438.l2649

If you use the link at the bottom to see the pictures you can find the stamps with certs starting around picture #175. I thought the Denmark #10 looked kind of ratty to have a Gr 70 cert. so I checked with the PSE verification page to make sure the seller wasn't cheating.

I'd be pretty annoyed with the PSE if I paid to get a Graded Cert and when I tried to sell the item on eBay their verification system didn't agree with the cert they sold me.

As for the USED Luxembourg #4 that is called a Vf-XF 85 Mint OGnh,
I can't imagine what folks would say if Anthonies made that mistake.


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!
New Forum TopicsRecently Active Forum Topics
  Zeigler Elected APS President
  US Stamp Give-Away (May 2018)
  US Christmas Seals Album Pages
  postal savings of 1943 - province of Kwangtung
  Britannia Barbados Mauritius Trinidad
  Stamps with WORDS and/or NUMBERS as the main design
  Irish Postage Due fdc. question.
  Japan Meiji Postcard with cover
  Another good find.....I hope. Is this a UX47?
  Best way to sort worldwide stamps BEFORE putting in album
  Dummy Stamps Newsletter reaches issue 50...
  Graf Zeppelin Round the World Tokyo Cover & More
  Early Japanese Stamps: Would you intentionally buy a forgery?
  Golden Replicas of United States Stamp Books
  Help to identify a 2 cent Jefferson. Scott #178 or #183
  U.S. Postal Service Reports Second Quarter 2018 Results
  is someone aware of a variant of this stamp with 14 perforations?
  British Colonies - Brunei Native Scene Issues
  "U.S. Postal Service announces first-ever scratch and sniff stamp with popsicle scent"
  Bulgarian stamps in recess
  20,000 Tulip Stamps Study
  perforation error on a 12 stamp 3 cents purple stamp booklet
  1898 Spanish American War revenue stamp tax rates
  Please help to identify blackish color of US #11?
  Hawaiian Numeral stamps by Jean de Sperati

  US Stamp Give-Away (May 2018)
  Everybody's Favorite NJ Seller is at it Again!
  Some really nice covers from a lot I bought. Bullseye cancel and others.
  Stamps with WORDS and/or NUMBERS as the main design
  Emperor Penguin Stamp Scans for a Book Project
  Auction Purchase Destroyed in Mail, Is Anyone Liable?
  Wiki'd Buildings on Stamps
  Gotta LOVE THOSE DOGS!
  Zeigler Elected APS President
  Possible Machin Forgery
  US Christmas Seals Album Pages
  cowboys
  Smokers on Stamps?
  Literary Stamp Collecting
  Zeppelin cover - Help with identifying flight.
  Bugs, Insects, & Creepy Crawlies
  Best way to sort worldwide stamps BEFORE putting in album
  U.S. Postal Service Reports Second Quarter 2018 Results
  Scott Catalog for North Korea
  perforation error on a 12 stamp 3 cents purple stamp booklet
  Americana Great American Series
  FS: Scott U.S. Plate Number Coil Strip (PNC3) album in green specialty binder
  Bulgarian stamps in recess
  Great Britain : On Steiner pages.
  Irish Postage Due fdc. question.

Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2018 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2005 - 2018 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.03 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05