Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Ribbed Papers

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 56 / Views: 7,774Next Topic
Page: of 4
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
2668 Posts
Posted 03/19/2018   10:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add littleriverphil to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Valera, the back of the last stamp you show above appears to be horizontally ribbed. What stamp is it? Could we see the front? And if possible could you take a photo of the back with a bight light shinning across the stamp? Like I show below the crop of your ribbed? stamp, which I enlarged then cropped to show the ribbing.




A ribbed O1sc





Position of lighting to show ribbing and or grills.


Send note to Staff

Valued Member
Belarus
75 Posts
Posted 03/19/2018   11:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add valera_foto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I tried to study this brand ....
But I believe that without your help it will be difficult for me ......
I will be very grateful for the help .....
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Belarus
75 Posts
Posted 03/19/2018   11:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add valera_foto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
1375 Posts
Posted 03/19/2018   12:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When it has been cancelled then it has been used, and was attached (with gum) to a cover.


to see possible ribbed paper it would be necessary that the light is oblique (from the side), not the camera. so you can make a normal photo from above but put a light next to the stamp.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Belarus
75 Posts
Posted 03/19/2018   12:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add valera_foto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
2668 Posts
Posted 03/19/2018   5:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sc 179 One of the four paper types, Hard thin, Double paper, Ribbed paper and paper with silk fibers listed in my old Specialized. Dashes for value. A nice find.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1754 Posts
Posted 03/19/2018   7:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@littleriverphil

I challenge your claim that this is a picture of horizontal ribbing. The procedure you have suggested for photographing ribbed paper is not a standard by any means, nor is it conclusive. What proof do you offer? (e.g what percentage of the items you have photographed this way have been certified as being on ribbed paper?)
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
6626 Posts
Posted 03/19/2018   7:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not ribbed paper.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
2668 Posts
Posted 03/19/2018   7:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
None. 33.3% The O1sc has an old APS cert (113786). I see what looks like ribbing to me, both on Valera's 5c Taylor image and my O1s and this 158, all photographed using the same basic method.



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by littleriverphil - 03/20/2018 08:11 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1754 Posts
Posted 03/20/2018   12:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I see what looks like ribbing to me,


I see. Have you measured the separation of the striations? How do they compare with the historic standard of 40 to the inch?

Have you yet seen vertical ribbing?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Belarus
75 Posts
Posted 03/20/2018   03:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add valera_foto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
RIBBED PAPER – Also has the appearance of parallel lines in the paper, but the difference between ribbed and laid is; a. Ribbed can NOT be detected while in watermark fluid. It can only be detected by viewing the stamp such that light is reflected off the surface at an angle allowing the fine lines to be visible; b. The parallel lines on ribbed paper are spaced much more closely than most laid paper (about 40 lines per inch on ribbed, less on laid, which has variable number of lines per inch). NOTE – Since ribbed paper in the classic issues is considered to be ONLY a product of Continental BNCo, the only reported certified copy of the 24c Continental stamp (Scott #164) can only be identified because it is on ribbed paper.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Belarus
75 Posts
Posted 03/20/2018   03:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add valera_foto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
RIBBED PAPER –but the It can only be detected by viewing the stamp such that light is reflected off the surface at an angle allowing the fine lines to be visible....?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
1375 Posts
Posted 03/20/2018   05:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
yes as I mentioned in my last post you should take a photo under oblique light (light source comes from the side). then the lines become more visible. of course this is not the proof for ribbed paper but a first indication. looking at your scans above it does not really look like ribbed paper to me, but if you take a better photo it's perhaps more visible.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
2668 Posts
Posted 03/20/2018   08:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Have you yet seen vertical ribbing?


158



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1754 Posts
Posted 03/20/2018   11:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
RIBBED PAPER – Also has the appearance of parallel lines in the paper, but the difference between ribbed and laid is;



Since the Dover edition re-publication in 1978 of Dard Hunter's book on Papermaking, originally copyrighted in 1947, philatelic students of paper have paid more attention to our use of terminology than earlier students had given to it. In this case, it is a bit idiosyncratic to speak of "laid lines" in machine made paper. True laid lines are a characteristic of a type of handmade paper only, resulting from the deposit of paper fibers upon a fine mesh wire lattice.

LAID: Characteristically, fine wires were set down closely spaced and at right angles to widely spaced "chain" wires in a frame (deckle) into which a slurry of paper pulp was poured and allowed to settle out through the wire mesh. The wires affected the orientation of the pulp fibers settling on them in a way that left an imprint from the wire in the fabric of the paper. Often fine metal design elements were incorporated into the lattice, and when the pulp settled on and around these the texture of the paper would form up differently than as between the wires, resulting in a visible watermark.

MACHINE MADE: (based on the Fourdrinier model) A pulp slurry is drizzled from a head box onto a continuously moving fine wire mesh belt on rollers which advance the forming web of paper. The web is passed beneath a large roll (Dandy roll) which squeezes out water and provides a fine finish to the upperside of the forming web. The surface of this roll may be adorned with fine wire mesh or metal designs that impart a colorless imprint on the web as a watermark. Sometimes the Dandy roll surface is fitted with wires to impart a watermark which resembles an array of laid lines.

Since stamp paper in the US in the 1870s was entirely machine made paper, it is anachronistic to speak of laid lines. A better term for paper which has been watermarked to resemble laid paper might be "pseudo-laid" paper. In the 1870s and 80s certain experimental papers not regularly issued to the public are known with pseudo-laid line watermarks, notably for the 1c to 10c Campbell Hall and Co experiments, and some types with the 2c red brown of 1883.

RIBBED PAPER: despite the researches and conjectures of Roy White, the mechanism by which ribbing was embedded in/upon machine made paper has not yet been unambiguously determined. Most students are agreed that it was not done at the Dandy roll, but at some point later in the chain of manufacture, perhaps in conjunction with final calendaring of the web or as cut sheets.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1754 Posts
Posted 03/20/2018   11:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Phil,

I am going to be tied up with packing and moving a studio for the next week, then we get into Holy Week, then after Easter I have an in-patient overnight test at a nearby hospital. But once that gauntlet is done I am going to attend to getting images of ribbing so we can do some comparisons. When properly viewed the lines of ribbing are clearly visible as lines and look nothing like what you are showing. However, I want to take some clearcut examples of ribbed paper and photograph them by your method to see if they look like what you are showing.

Bear with me a bit longer.


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 4 Previous TopicReplies: 56 / Views: 7,774Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2021 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2021 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.2 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05