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1c 1857 Plate 5 Stamps

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Posted 04/21/2020   10:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Caper, this is definitely a Type Va but I do not think it is an F Relief. My vote based on the photo would be for Relief B, position 12R5. In any event, look closely at the Type Va B reliefs.

P.S. Congrats on the acquisition. I was the underbidder.
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Posted 04/21/2020   12:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Caper123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry Dudley, but thanks for the suggestion. I'll scope it out.
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Posted 04/21/2020   2:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Caper123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dudley - I checked out 12R5 and am not warm and fuzzy about the comparison of markings. I think you are right-on about the B relief and the 2nd row right pane have several good possibilities.

12R5 - No plate mark (PM) left of ornament C.
No PM's in top right scroll.
No horizontal line below ornament D.
Does have a fain PM near bottom of right plume.
12R5 has no PM in T of CENT.

19R5 - Has PM in T of CENT.
Does have the break in the top line above the S in US.
Missing horizontal line through the N of ONE.

17 thru 19R5 have a PM in the T of CENT. My 'better' scan soes show a faint mark there.

Though Siegel has an example of a 15R and Worthpoint an 18R, neither are clear enough to help here.

Maybe these scans will help (make at 2400 dpi):





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Posted 07/28/2021   6:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I hope there is still interest in maintaining separate threads for each of the 1 plates. I recently purchased a pretty #24 that I believe is a relief "B" from Plate 5. If I'm correct, there are only six positions in the left pane that it could be. I'm guessing it is 14L5, but it is mostly from a process of elimination. It has some plate marks that aren't on the Neinken diagram for that position, but I haven't found another example to compare it to.




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Posted 08/04/2021   2:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
After additional study of this stamp, I have changed my mind about it being from Plate 5. I was putting a lot of stock in the blurs under the "E" and "N" of CENTS, but these are also present on the "B" reliefs of plate 7. I couldn't find many "B" relief examples from either plate to compare to, but the marks in the "O" of ONE make it much more likely to be from position 18R7. It matches most of the marks on the Doporto example, but as with Doporto's, it still doesn't match with all of the marks in the Neinken mat.

Anyone else's thoughts would be appreciated.
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Posted 08/05/2021   10:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
widglo, I haven't had time to look at your stamp thoroughly, but I have a strip of 3, 18-28-38R7 on cover in which the marks in the O of ONE in 18R7 are a match for your stamp (but not the other marks you indicate). Note also that David Zlowe has shown in his CHRONICLE series on plate bruises that the blurring patterns on and between these stamps show consistency with respect to relief across all of the Type V plates.
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Posted 08/05/2021   12:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dudley - Thanks so much for the Chronicle references by David Zlowe. I appreciate your help as I get more into my specialization with the 1 Franklin.

I've only been able to look briefly through the articles, but I think they will be a great resource. I was aware from comments on Doporto's website that the bruises and blurring patterns were often found on many examples of the same relief (even from different plates), but I was unaware that someone had published an in-depth study of this subject.

Zlowe's article on the history of the 1 Franklin types is also very informative.
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Posted 10/24/2021   3:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Anyone following this Plate 5 thread may be interested in this stamp that I started a separate thread on:
http://goscf.com/t/77869

I acquired another #24 for which I also originally had no idea how to plate or if that was even possible. All I can say for sure is that it is a Relief "E" example. The sharpness of the impression made me to look closer at plate 5, and I think now that I may have found a match with 81L5. The only stamp that I have to compare it with, however, is the one on Doporto's site.



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Posted 11/09/2021   8:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This stamp was unplated when I acquired it, and I was principally attracted to the duplex cancel. It has all sorts of scratches, blurs and bruises, and I also thought it would be a good plating exercise. I'm pretty sure it is a Plate 5, and my best pick for position is 44L5, but I welcome hearing anyone else's opinion. I can post higher resolution images of any area if someone wants to see a particular feature closer.
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Posted 11/11/2021   3:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
widglo, this stamp is from Plate 8.
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Posted 11/11/2021   10:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
dudley - Thanks for steering me to Plate 8. I was never sure of even the correct plate, and I relied too much on the Neinken maps. He shows the thin outer line of the frame incomplete on the right side for almost all Plate 8 examples and not so on Plate 5. I thought I could trace it completely around the side on my example, so I focused on Plate 5. Looking again at Plate 8, Relief "E", I found a good match with Doporto's 82L8. Is that the position you were thinking?
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Posted 11/11/2021   11:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, exactly!
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