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Help with a stamp of the former DDR  
 

 
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Valued Member
United States
70 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   10:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add hawkstamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Have a question concerning the rating of a DDR stamp. The stamp in question is the Mi. 448, Sc.232 . The Mi. Special shows the following deviations. aXI, aXII,aYI, and bXI, bXII. The copy of my stamp is used and shows the following: b Wz2XI.
My question is, since this doesn't seem to be a valid grade, did this stmp ever have this assigned grade and was deleted? Should I assume that the person certifying made a mistake. That would make wonder since I also habe this stampp MNH. Thank you for any info.

Pete


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Pillar Of The Community
United States
5673 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   11:14 am  Show Profile Check Petert4522's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have no idea why this stamp would be graded. It is centered badly for one.

Pete
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Valued Member
Netherlands
391 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   11:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Johan Buvelot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Breaking down the numnber, it seems to indicate b for yellow paper, watermark 2x and then type I. the last bit is the problem for me, to the best of my knowledge and the Michel catalogue no used or cto examples exist.

so 448 bXI

but given the fact that this does not exist used, it is most probably a 448 bxII

Check the watermark for fat or thin D's in DDR.

Kind regards, Johan.

PS Assumptions made in the believe that the stamp has yellowish paper.
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Edited by Johan Buvelot - 05/14/2018 11:36 am
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
2442 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   11:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It seems to be an expertisation mark for Mi 448 b X I

This isn't a grading.

This stamp is described in Michel as Wz2 X I, i.e. the horizontal version of the type I repeated DDR and posthorn watermark.

Why have you blocked out a line of the handstamp in your scans?

I'm guessing it's the name of a BPP expertiser although this is not the format of BPP markings used in recent years.
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Nigel
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France, Metropolitan
1268 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   11:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Another marking for this stamp.


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Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
768 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   11:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm confused. My 2015 Michel Spezial shows a Wz 2XI for this stamp. It appears to be a 448 bXI. That has a 2XI watermark. Sometimes an expert mark does not give the full listing. You blocked out part of the marking so I can't tell if it is a BPP expert or not.

Dan



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The poor relations of stampdom need a home too. ... I'd rather have an example that is imperfect than no example. (LSNW 11/20/17 p.54)
I collect for enjoyment, not investment.
APS Member 223433 Postmark Collectors Club Member #6333
Edited by danstamps54 - 05/14/2018 11:58 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1630 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   12:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The name of the expertizer is a crucial piece of information.
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United States
5673 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   12:46 pm  Show Profile Check Petert4522's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am still flabbergasted about this stamp. Why would it ever be graded?

Peter
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1941 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   1:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PostmasterGS to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From the mark, it appears to be MiNr 448 b X I. Though Michel doesn't list a price, the --.-- indicates used copies exist, but Michel doesn't have enough info to set a catalog price. That doesn't necessarily mean it's rare or valuable, just that there's not enough info at this time.

As to Peter's question, grading is a particularly U.S. phenomenon, and that's not what's been done here. It's been expertized to get certification of the variant, not to establish a grade for condition, centering, etc.
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Presenting the GermanStamps.net Collection - Germany, Colonies, & Occupied Territories, 1872-1945
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United States
6686 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   1:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The terminology usage is confusing several of us.

There is a Michel catalog ID on the back of the stamp as part of the expertizer mark, but the OP has unfortunately blocked out what is likely the expertizer name.

There is no grading involved in what we can see of the expertizer mark. I'm wondering if instead of


Quote:
My question is, since this doesn't seem to be a valid grade, did this stmp ever have this assigned grade and was deleted?


the OP meant to write

"My question is, since this doesn't seem to be a valid catalog ID, did this stamp ever have this assigned catalog ID and was deleted?"
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Valued Member
United States
70 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   1:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hawkstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to briefly address the points mentioned in the answers above, wich I appreciate very much.
To #1 -don't know why it was expertised, it's the way I obtained the stamp.
#2-the paper looks yello(ish) and the letters D appear to be horizontly elongated.
#3- Yes it is the name of a BPP expertiser. I didn't want to show his name to not possibly create the impression that this expertiser was unreliable.
#4-The stamp shown in this reply is an "a" not a "b" like mine is supposed to be.
#6-Blocking out the name did not at all cover any part of the expertisation mark. I tried a couple of methods to determine if a second letter "I" had been present I was unable to find any part of a second "I" which would than make it a b WZ2 XII.

Thank you all for your help.
Pete
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6686 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   1:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hawkstamp, if you haven't done so already, you should confirm yourself that your stamp is MiNr 448 b X I (6x15mm watermark) and not MiNr 448 b X II (5x17mm watermark). Because, like stamps, expertizer marks can still be faked/altered.
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Valued Member
United States
70 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   1:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hawkstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
KHJ,
Thank you. Yours, of course, is the proper way task that question. My problem here is that I still am not knowledgeable of all the proper terms and definitions. Perhaps this will generate a couple more answers.
Thanks,
Pete
Curious: what is an OP?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6686 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   1:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK, Hawkstamp replied while I was making my last post.

(EDIT: the rest of this post deleted. I misunderstood a sentence in your post. Sorry.)
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Edited by khj - 05/14/2018 1:52 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6686 Posts
Posted 05/14/2018   1:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Pete, OP is forum short-hand (frowned upon in some forums) for Original Post or Original Poster.

Regardless of the actual ID, this stamp, the markings, and this thread has been very interesting. Thanks for posting the pic & question!
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Edited by khj - 05/14/2018 1:46 pm
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