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Overstamp 1932 Mount Vernon Air Mail Cover - Years Produced?

 
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United States
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Posted 05/17/2018   5:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add thk25 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

I just found this forum, and have been researching the use of air mail by servicemen during World War II.

In particular I have been fascinated by the overstamping of smaller denomination covers to make up for the shortage of 6 cent embossed air mail covers for the military. I believe this practice is first announced in the March 27, 1945 Postal Bulletin.

It seems like most of the overstamped covers are the UC8 variety (apologies I am not an avid stamp collector and don't know any of the catalog names), shown in this thread: http://goscf.com/t/42995&whichpage=1 . I didn't know that those envelopes were watermarked with their production date before finding that post, very interesting, and I did not that the UC8 was still being made in 1941.

I was surprised to see a 1932 Mount Vernon Bicentennial cover also overstamped on eBay (UC9 ?). Photo below:


Can anyone tell me when this style envelope was produced? For example, were they only made during 1932 or were they made later like the UC8? I am just trying to frame out how desperate the situation was for the Postal Service in 1945, for example, were they overstamping envelopes that were over a decade old in order to provide enough air mail envelopes for soldiers overseas? Because it seems like that may have been the case.

Thanks for your help!
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Edited by thk25 - 05/17/2018 5:46 pm

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Posted 05/18/2018   07:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"I am just trying to frame out how desperate the situation was for the Postal Service in 1945"

They were desperate to make use of the vast stockpile of 2 cent envelopes when the rates changed to 3 cents in 1932.

I believe there was also a need for airmail envelopes for the military, but someone more into postal history can chime in on that.

I believe that surcharging already made envelopes could be accomplished at a higher production rate than virgin envelopes. That may have played are role in the decision to overprint.
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Posted 05/18/2018   08:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ikeyPikey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In the US, WW2 brought near-deafening exhortations to conserve every resource ... including paper.

In the UK, paper was rationed.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
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Edited by ikeyPikey - 05/18/2018 08:33 am
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United States
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Posted 05/18/2018   10:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add thk25 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Tom, but weren't the UC 8 style envelopes still being made in 1941? I believe that is what you said in the thread I linked above:

"The watermark will consist of two large interlocking you & S, with the date (e.g., "1941") interspersed within the US. There are several configurations of the way the date is laid out. The only dates you should see are 1929, 1933, 1937, or 1941." http://goscf.com/t/42995&whichpage=1

Apologies if I am misinterpreting that.

So were the UC9/ Mount Vernon Bicenntinel envelopes only made in 1932?

Appreciate the help so far guys.
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Posted 05/18/2018   4:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jarnick to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In additon to the surcharged envelope, there are a couple of other interesting facts about this cover. It was mailed from APO 408 on July 15, 1945 to Pasadena. The writer apparently requested that some items be sent to him. In order to mail a parcel to the APO, it to be requested by the overseas serviceman. The Pasadena Parcel Post cancel of September 11 indicated that the parcel was sent on that date and the request verified by the parcel post clerk.
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Posted 05/18/2018   5:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Two small points:
1. I would hesitate to call the overprinting "desperation". It seems like responsible repurposing of leftover stock no longer in demand due to rate changes.
2. I partly agree with jarnick, but would add that the portion of the letter where the parcel request was made should have received the postmark to truly void any duplicated shipment.
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Posted 05/18/2018   8:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"So were the UC9/ Mount Vernon Bicentennial envelopes only made in 1932?"

Most were probably made in 1931, since the first day of issue was Jan 1, 1932 for all except the 3 center, which arrived June 16. There may have been a second manufacturing run if demand was higher than expected.
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Posted 05/18/2018   9:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"weren't the UC 8 style envelopes still being made in 1941? "

Hard to know just what exactly you are asking for. These envelopes (UC8's) went through two phases of existence. First they were made into envelopes as U429's. Then those envelopes were overprinted and became UC8's. The former's process spanned the years 1915 thru the 1949 paper contract. The latter's seems to have been an event in early 1945, based of the ERPs recorded. Though, that event could have been several events spaced throughout 1945. Note that they were still making 2 cent circs after the UC8's were surcharged.

There's gotta be some other other envelope types who know this history better then me. Where's Jobi-wan when you need him.
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Posted 05/18/2018   9:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add thk25 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John,

The POD was certainly desperate.

Air mail became so popular that in November 1943 post office employees were advised to restrict requisitions for air mail envelopes for civilians, and less than a year later on July 25, 1944, were informed that the entire production of embossed $.06 air mail envelopes was being allotted for the Armed Forces. In a further effort to increase production, the signature red, white, and blue border was removed in the late Summer of 1944. Despite these efforts, and sending over 861 million of these envelopes overseas after July 25, 1944, in March 1945 the Postal Service had to supply 2 cent air mail envelopes overstamped with the words "6 c Air Mail" in order to satisfy military demands.
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Posted 05/18/2018   9:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add thk25 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tom thanks for your help.

I guess I'm struggling to understand your comment on the watermarks in the post I linked. In it, in reference to UC8 envelopes you said that watermarks could be found and that 1941 was one of the years of production.

"The watermark will consist of two large interlocking you & S, with the date (e.g., "1941") interspersed within the US. There are several configurations of the way the date is laid out. The only dates you should see are 1929, 1933, 1937, or 1941." So were U429s made in 1941? UC8s wouldn't have existed until 1945 (likely March 1945) when they are discussed in the Postal Bulletins.
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Posted 05/19/2018   3:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"In it, in reference to UC8 envelopes you said that watermarks could be found and that 1941 was one of the years of production."

Yes, one of the years of production of the underlying U429.

"So were U429s made in 1941?"

Yes, all the way into the 1949-1952 paper contract.

"UC8s wouldn't have existed until 1945 (likely March 1945) when they are discussed in the Postal Bulletins."

Right. But remember that each UC8 that came into existence in 1945 was previously a U429 that could have any one of several watermarks, some of which go all the way back to the 1929 paper contract.
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Posted 05/19/2018   10:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add thk25 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tom thanks a lot for the explanation on the U429s. I think this is my last question, why the were the U429s still being made after 1933 (and up to 1952) when 3 cents was the 1st class rate?

Thanks everyone for your help. Learning a lot about this.
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Posted 05/20/2018   07:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"why the were the U429s still being made after 1933 (and up to 1952) when 3 cents was the 1st class rate?"

Good question. Whenever I talk to Bill Geijsbeek (a 20th century envelope expert) it seems he has a new take on these 'envelopes that were for sale but for no matching rate'. He studies this issue and doesn't have an answer.

This is not my area of study. I find it interesting, but don't try to track down a solution. Maybe someone who is will chime in.

There are USPOD pricing schedules for U.S. envelopes from 1932 and 1945 on the UPSS website. It is interesting to study them.
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Posted 05/20/2018   10:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add thk25 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks a lot for your help! The U429 is an interesting cover it seems. At least there is some finality with the 1932 amount Vernon.
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Posted 05/20/2018   8:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"why the were the U429s still being made after 1933 (and up to 1952) when 3 cents was the 1st class rate?"


The letter rate for local letters was 2 cents in cities with carrier service into March 1944.
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Posted 05/21/2018   09:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add thk25 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John, great information. Thanks for pointing that out!
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