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Hot Rods #4908-9 Partial Perf Oddity

 
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Pillar Of The Community

Guatemala
1500 Posts
Posted 05/31/2018   10:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add quigngt to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I suspect this came from a Press Sheet with Die Cuts. Am I correct? If they are in fact from a press sheet with die cuts, would it be called an oddity?

I am adding it to my specialized collection of York, PA items. This issue was released on June 6 2014 in York PA.


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Pillar Of The Community
United States
673 Posts
Posted 05/31/2018   1:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add alub to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These were issued as cut and uncut press sheets.The "cut" press sheets allowed for imperf pairs.

I think it is kind of silly that Scott does not issue numbers for all these imperf. It is not as if they were issued in a different way than the "special printings" of the 1880's. Many of the Washington/Franklin imperfs were never sold in post offices, yet they get full numbers.
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Pillar Of The Community
Guatemala
1500 Posts
Posted 05/31/2018   2:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add quigngt to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for confirming my suspicion, alub. I kinda figured it came from a cut press sheet because of the vertical perforations on the outer sides. I don't think the seller was being deceptive since it really is imperf between. I bought it anyways since it was an eye catcher item.

Interestingly, this pair could easily have been separated from the outer edge of a die cut booklet press sheet. Seems to me, then, that there is nothing altered with these. They are 100% natural as issued by USPS

Still, I wonder how the stamp pontificates will ultimately classify the likes of these.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
673 Posts
Posted 06/01/2018   12:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add alub to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The press sheets were for the booklets, it is the only way this stamp was issued.

Scott puts a footnote in the specialized about these stamps, but for some odd reason, won't list them.
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Pillar Of The Community
Guatemala
1500 Posts
Posted 06/02/2018   2:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add quigngt to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, at least Scott recognizes they exist. I read a number of years ago that Scott won't do more than a footnote until certain number of sales or reports take place. So, I at least have a footnoted item.

As a matter of fact, I have 2 or more Scott footnoted items. Those are Guatemala stamps

It just now came to mind that I have a Scott US C118 Samuel Langley I posted years ago. Langley's coat and some shading on the plane are green instead of grey. Is this stamp in Scott specialized? Actually I have several copies on and off cover all mailed by the same person (Whom I know personally). Maybe I'll see if I can repost it to find out if there is any new info on it. I even saw one on eBay 2 years ago for several thousand dollars. Not surprisingly, it did not sell.



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Pillar Of The Community
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United States
1313 Posts
Posted 06/02/2018   3:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is a color variety of C133 (Niagara Falls) that Scott does not recognize. The original stamp (plate V1111) had too much red in the falls & the water looks pink. This was later corrected (plate V2111). Guess Scott didn't consider the difference great enough to take notice, even though this difference is sufficient to identify which plate was used to produce a given stamp. Compare this to some of the minor varieties assigned to various Great Americans ... Virginia Apgar for one, and perhaps the Wallaces for another ... and I don't understand what is required for assignment of minor catalogue numbers. While there are color variations in the Apgar stamps, I cannot always ID the difference between 2179 & 2179a. Instead I look for stamps that seem to best exhibit the shades given by Scott. But with practice, I have been able to identify 2179b ... like the C133 shade, it can be tied to a single plate number (B3).
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Pillar Of The Community
Guatemala
1500 Posts
Posted 06/02/2018   4:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add quigngt to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
JLLebbert, thanks for your post. It is so frustrating to me and others, I'm sure, that Scott seems to make decisions in a very subjective and inconsistent manner. Your examples are a two of many.
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Edited by quigngt - 06/02/2018 4:13 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2944 Posts
Posted 06/02/2018   10:48 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I will take a run at this. The Great Americans varieties were single color stamps printed with inks of different colors/shades at different times. The C133 were multi-color stamps printed with the same inkzs at different times, just more or less of the magenta (red). Lets go back to a single color red stamp. Would you really be calling for a listing if part of the production had heavier or weaker inking if that one color?
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United States
1313 Posts
Posted 06/02/2018   11:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My previous post might lead one to think that I believe the C133 shade is deserving of a minor catalogue number. Actually, that is not the case, as I agree with Scott that the shade difference is not truly significant. I was using this variety as a lead-in to my real quibble ... with the Apgars (2179 & 2179a). My intended point (not well stated, I must admit) was that while one could fairly easily identify a given C133 as coming from a specific plate number, the same cannot be said of a random Apgar from plates B1 or B2. One can indeed find the two ink colors reported in Scott ... but there also seem to be some indeterminate transitional shades available as well. It appears to me that one ends up carefully selecting specific stamps that would seem to represent the two reported shades. When there is spectrum of shades in production, does it make sense to assign numbers to the two "ends of the spectrum"? Once again, I must admit that Scott may have the right of it by answering "yes", especially if the inks used were indeed different. But, personally, I would have preferred a "no" in this instance.
Then there are 2168b & 2172b ... examples which appear to me to just be cases of underinking.
OK ... end of rant. And my apologies for sort of "highjacking" this thread!
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Bedrock Of The Community
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Australia
35501 Posts
Posted 06/03/2018   01:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
FYI.
Uncut Press sheet item......Canada.

http://goscf.com/t/51602&whichpage=13#538638 br /

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Edited by rod222 - 06/03/2018 01:55 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2944 Posts
Posted 06/04/2018   12:32 am  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
JL - I have the same concern about the 2172b
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Pillar Of The Community
Guatemala
1500 Posts
Posted 06/04/2018   5:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add quigngt to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
JLLebbert No need to apologize, to me at least, since your post is related to disagreement with Scott expressed in other posts over the years. Maybe Scott has a policy to footnote rather than assign a new number so as to avoid the need to produce what potentially could end up as a massive catalog too expensive for most buyers.

The Hot Rods imperforate between pair was a conscience decision. It cannot be an EFO as would be some imperforate stamps due to human or printer mistakes. I don't know how many die cut press sheets were printed but lets suppose 500 sheets. If only 500, there would be many thousands more pairs than there are for the Bugs Bunny single stamp imperforate which has a letter added to the number (3137c). It has already been shown that a postally used 3137c is quite rare; I've only seen one. So a rare use of a 4908-9 partial perf pair should not be an obstacle to number it as for an example: 4908d or other letter.
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