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Help with New South Wales 2d Sydney View  
 

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Posted 09/12/2018   8:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add danko to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Found this one in the mix of some good oldies. From my understanding, every position on the sheet had design differences. Plus, it also had been extensively forged. There are just too many curve balls for me as a general WW collector to narrow it down to a specific SG number. Anyhow, I tried, and vaguely believe that it is SG #21. There are some, what looks like plate scratches as well. Would love to get some feedback.







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Posted 09/12/2018   9:21 pm  Show Profile Check Petert4522's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Danko, you might want to ask staff to place this in the Australian threads. It is a pretty stamp, and you might get more answers from our Australian friends

Peter
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Posted 09/12/2018   9:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danko to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Oops, I didn't know we have one. I thought that US and Canada only have their own forums. Thank you Peter for advise. I'll try to get a hold of someone.
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Posted 09/12/2018   10:13 pm  Show Profile Check Petert4522's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Danko, it is easy. Look on the bottom right hand on each post where it says "send note to staff". And please do not apologize - I am just trying to help you get more answers

Peter
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Posted 09/13/2018   01:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Beyond my knowledge.
Try here for examples
http://www.prestigephilately.com/ca...rtcode=haden
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Posted 09/13/2018   01:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Danko,

Unquestionably a forgery, most likely by Spiro. The stars in the corners and the 'cancellation' are the giveaways.

Hope this helps
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Posted 09/13/2018   02:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Further reading for students.




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Edited by rod222 - 09/13/2018 02:26 am
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Posted 09/13/2018   08:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Further to danko's original post, yes each stamp was engraved on the plate individually. There are 2 plates of the 1d, 5 of the 2d (and retouches on pate 2) and only 1 plate of the 3d. The 1d and 3d are plates of 25 (5x5) and the 2d is a plate of 24 (2 rows of 12).

The Sydney Views are amongst the most famous of plateable stamps and were wildly popular way back in the day.

They're also notable for not having the name of the issuing entity on them!
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Posted 09/14/2018   7:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danko to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dang it. Forgers 2 - danko 0.


Bobby, Rod thank you all very much.

This is the stamp I was basing my judgement on




from

http://stampauctionnetwork.com/V/v69319.cfm.

Rod do you have more of those position pages?

I would think those are invaluable resource in sorting through "Sidney Views"

I'll see if I can find some online.

Bobby:

You are right, cancels did look very suspicious. Also, paper looked off to me. It should be wove, I'm not an expert in paper, but it looks nothing like wove paper on early US stamps. It looks ... "fibery"?
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Posted 09/15/2018   02:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi danko,

I can help with plating Sydney Views.

The one you showed from the Kelleher auction is position 2.

The tells that I used (and there will be others) are, in clockwise order, two dots in the star, the position of the dot in the star, the void areas at bottom left x2.



As for the paper, I quickly checked my literature and can't confirm this but I would imagine it was manufactured in Sydney. Charles Kay was the first supplier of paper (December 1849).

The January 1851 accounts include Charles Chapman (for colours & Materials supplied) and Dawson & Thompson ( for articles supplied) and in June 1851 from William Ford (2 accounts for paper supplied).

Over the various printings of the Sydney Views a variety of papers were used so the different suppliers probably give us a good clue as to why.

Comparing the paper on which primitive stamps from different countries/states/etc. are printed is unwise IMHO. There will be so many inconsistencies due to local manufacture.

Hope this helps and makes sense
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Posted 09/15/2018   03:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Rod do you have more of those position pages?


Danko,
I possibly do, but unable to locate at the moment, probably stored away in the mountain of boxes,
I have been looking for Australian Engravers for another member,
been through 2000 magazines, no luck so far.

UPDATE:
Looks like I scanned them (Before I became overwhelmed by material)

The Magazine is called "The Sydney Views" not to be confused with the stamps.
It looks like they just plopped stamp position randomly on each penultimate page.
So Danko, this is all I have (3 images from 3 magazines)

The motto is "Thus, Mighty Etruria grew"

Position 14

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Edited by rod222 - 09/15/2018 03:46 am
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Posted 09/15/2018   03:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

The story behind the Stamp.................

The Stamps, commonly known as the "Sydney Views", the design of which was based on the Great Seal of New South Wales.
The Great Seal of New South Wales was commissiond to Wedgewood, when they sent a great dollop of Clay back
from New South Wales, and asked him to design a seal in Clay.

Wedgewoods design included Industry, with all her attributes, a bale of merchandise, a beehive, a pick axe, and a
shovel, receiving (Freeing) convicts, at Sydney Cove, and oxen ploughing on the hillside of Sydney Cove.

The Motto Wedgewood used was "Sic Fortis Etruria Crevit" (Thus, mighty Etruria grew) ( a quote from Virgil
(Georgic11, V533) suggesting the similarity between how Sydney may grow as Rome.

The cute thing that makes me smile, is the connection with Wedgewood, his Pottery factory itself, was located in Etruria, Staffordshire England.
That is just so cool.

What a man, a prominent abolishionist, and a big thumbs up.

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Posted 09/15/2018   04:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Author : Seven Seas Stamps Catalogue. Circa 1976

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Posted 09/15/2018   6:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 'Sydney Views' magazine is the quarterly journal of the Australian States Study Circle.

Abacus sold a complete run, 1980 to 2017, in their May auction:

https://www.prestigephilately.com/c...e=books&lim=

That was one time I was very unhappy to be an underbidder
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Posted 09/15/2018   6:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Very nice Bobby,
I possibly would have gone to $100.
They are full of juicy information.
Still value at $190, I pay $5 -$8 for a singleton, if I like the contents.
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Posted 09/19/2018   8:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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