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India Native Feudatory State Bussahir / Bashahr / Bushahr - Nr. 1 - Fake?

 
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Pillar Of The Community

Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
1108 Posts
Posted 09/27/2018   08:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add filipo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This stamps seems to be very rare, so I suppose that this is a fake. It is printed on a laid paper, so it should be catalog nr. 1 for that state... 1/4 Anna, pink (unwatermarked, litho, imperf, laid paper)... however, seems to be pretty rough at all... any ideas?





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Edited by filipo - 09/27/2018 08:43 am

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United States
6301 Posts
Posted 09/27/2018   10:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice stamp but when your dealing with these early Indian Native States bear in mind that all of them were made crudely to start with and that the printing methods used to produce them were equally poor .

It should not be branded a counterfeit without recourse to an expert in the field . Careful comparison with an undoubted genuine example is always the wisest method of determining a counterfeit.

I would send it to the Royals in Great Britain and expect to pay around 50 to $100.00 and 6 months for a return . Your other choice would to sell it as is ,then your just getting a few bucks for it . Let us know your decision ,I be interested as a forgery .
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Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
1108 Posts
Posted 09/27/2018   10:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Floortrader... thank you for your reply and suggestions. $50 to $100 to Royals if they provide a photo atest sounds fine... btw. do you know much need to pay if the stamps is a fake?

Also... there is a several small brown dots which are going from the fron to the back... I will consider them as a major faults in modern stamps... not sure how they are considered by collectors for this kind of rare stamps? eg. spot just left from the right star?

I am unable to find a good example exactly of this issue on-line... any help to find it will be appreciated!
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Pillar Of The Community
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United States
6301 Posts
Posted 09/27/2018   10:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
FILIPO ----I am hoping TONY stops in and sees your posting ,he knows this area much more than me ,he could help you more and who should look at it .
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
1255 Posts
Posted 09/27/2018   11:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tim H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Filipo, The Royal will issue a certificate based on what they think the stamp is. If they think it's genuine they will say so and the certificate will be issued on white paper. If they think it's a forgery then the certificate will be issued on pink paper and will clearly say that the stamp is a forgery, in their opinion. Expect the waiting time to be around 3 months, not 6.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
165 Posts
Posted 09/27/2018   3:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add peterh to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is not SG 1 (and I assume also not #1 in other catalogues).

SG 1 has the wording BUSSAHIR STATE and QUARTER ANNA in white on a coloured band.

This stamp is similar to SG 31 (catalogued GBP 6.50), but is a reprint/remainder on laid paper with the overprinted monogram 'PS' (Padam Singh), who was the director of the Post Office after the period in which the genuine stamps were issued.

These remainders are not without interest, but generally of low value.
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Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
1108 Posts
Posted 09/28/2018   01:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, PeterH! I will not be able to find that out without your help!
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Pillar Of The Community
France
2410 Posts
Posted 09/28/2018   02:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add vayolene to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,here's a picture of a (forged) Bussahir #1 : wording in white just as peterh said,and "stamp" instead of "postage"
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Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
1108 Posts
Posted 09/29/2018   11:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Vayolene!
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
165 Posts
Posted 09/29/2018   12:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add peterh to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
...and here's a better image of the genuine type, although this is the perforated version.

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India
557 Posts
Posted 09/30/2018   4:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


I profusely refuse to Pyotr's description "reprint/remainder".

The stamp here is not a remainder but essentially a reprint (Bateman 238) of Bashahar 1900 A vermilion imperf. lithograph (SG 31b) with Bateman type C PS [acronym of Padam Sinh i.e. Padamsinh Shamshersinh Gahlaut (1873#8210;1947), Director of Bashahar State Post (1899#8210;1901)] monogram in pale blue, printed in sheets of 16 (44) on laid paper from stone F, characterized by pale color and poor quality print with borders all around.

The remainders were all issued stamps but with Bateman type BH monograms and in this case the remainder would have been the Bashahar 1900 A SG 31b which was printed on wove paper in sheets of 24 (46) from stone B having clear even print, which was also overprinted with PS in mauve and lake.
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Pillar Of The Community
India
557 Posts
Posted 09/30/2018   4:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the real deal of Bashahar 1895 A SG 1; Ref. The "Robert Atkinson" Collection Great Britain and British Commonwealth Stanley Gibbons Sale No. 5880 (lot#400) dt. Sep 22,2015.

Bashahar 1895 A pink imperf. lithograph with Bateman type A monogram in mauve (SG 1)



I know Pyotr is very fond of Bashahar remainders/reprints with Bateman type BH monograms but this is what you need to collect.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
165 Posts
Posted 09/30/2018   6:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add peterh to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What was the hammer price of that one Joy? Currently catalogued in SG at an eye-watering 4000!
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Valued Member
United States
5 Posts
Posted 12/03/2022   12:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Millersville to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have found the following variants of this India / Bussahir 1/4 anna Leopard stamp which may helpful for others facing the quandary of "What is my stamp".

- Scott #1 [Mi:IN-BS 1B, Sg:IN-BS 1] Leopard on laid paper (1895-1899) litho., imperforate, pink with the "R S" overprint in violet {2022 Sc MNH CV= $3,750}; appears very much like the item shared by filipo;
- Scott #9 Leopard on laid paper (1895-1899) litho., perf. 7 to 14, pink with the "R S" overprint in violet or blue green {2022 Sc MNH CV=$100};
- Scott #17 Leopard on wove paper (1896), engraved, pin perf., dk gray violet with "R S" overprint in rose {2022 Sc UNH CV=$1500};
- Scott #19 [Mi:IN-BS 15B, Sg:IN-BS 31] Leopard redrawn on wove paper (1900) litho., imperforate, red with "R S" overprint in violet or blue green {2022 Sc UNH CV=$1500};
- Scott #27 Leopard redrawn on wove paper (1900) pin perf., red with "R S" overprint in violet or blue green {2022 Sc UNH CV=$16};
- Mi:IN-BS 15A [Sg:IN-BS 37] Leopard redrawn on wove paper (1900) litho.,rouletted, red with "R S" overprint in violet or blue green {no Scott listing}

Scott mentions the alternate monograms "RNS" or "PS" were only applied to reprints or remainders and never issued postally.

I'm presently researching the attached stamp before sending it for certification and thought I add my two cents to this column as I proceed on my path.
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Valued Member
United States
5 Posts
Posted 12/04/2022   12:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Millersville to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are a couple of additional photos of the stamp in my possession, the first compares the color to the Stanley Gibbons rose-pink, the closest color match I could find; the second uses sunlight to illustrate the lines created by the laid paper; and the third is of the reverse. I am hoping members of this forum can suggest the next steps to pre-qualify the stamp before I invest in expertizing as there are many counterfeits and reprints of these issues.


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