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Machin 1p Crimson Stamps: Acp Vs Pcp Vs Ppp

 
 
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Posted 09/29/2018   10:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add CP2018 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
When I bought Adminware's Intermediate album, I thought it would be fairly easy with a magnifying glass and a UV lamp to identify the different stamps. Unfortunately, I realized that it is way more complicated than I thought lol. I am at the 1P crimson and there are 3 different pages and I read the description of ACP, PCP and PPP but I am having difficulties understanding which is which by checking the stamps with a UV light. On some, the white glow a lot and the color is more dark under the UV light. Some others are more like red under it and the white doesn't really glow. Since those last one have phosphor bands, I think they are neither. But it means that my glowing ones can be either ACP, PPP or PCP, from what I understand anyway. Any easy way to know which is which?
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Posted 10/03/2018   08:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add fiscallee to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These are paper types: Advanced Coated Paper (ACP), Phosphor Coated Paper (PCP), & Preprinted Phosphor Paper (PPP). There are many more types, as well.

Adminware has a really good guide called "Simplifying the Machins", that can be downloaded as a .pdf:

https://adminware.ca/machin/simplifyingmachins.pdf

Keep in mind this disclaimer though, that the author puts at the beginning of the paper types section:

"Of all the sorting criteria listed so far, the determination of "paper" is by far the most difficult. You may simply decide to ignore this criteria rather than pulling your hair out!"



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Edited by fiscallee - 10/03/2018 09:02 am
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Posted 06/15/2019   5:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
CP2018,

I am luckier than you. I only bought the "Novice" pages. But I have the same problem as you - How to tell?

The Adminware site is somewhat limited in its write-up. Can anybody else chime in here and help us out?

Thanks,
Jack Kelley
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Posted 06/15/2019   8:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the entries from Deegam for ACP, PCP and PPP.



Good luck.

I don't even try to identify paper.

Robert
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Posted 06/16/2019   05:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I also purchased the intermediate adminware pages so saw plenty of spaces for paper types.

What I did learn trying to understand these paper types is that used stamps appear different than mint so makes identification harder even with UV lamp.

I did try to contact two dealers via email on getting a reference set but they never responded. PPP paper always has a very strong response under UV but ACP and PCP can vary. I may not end up collecting them but still want a reference set of all the paper types.

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Al
Edited by angore - 06/16/2019 06:48 am
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Posted 06/16/2019   06:15 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Might be worth - depending on budget, of course - going for something like this

https://www.warwickandwarwick.com/a...logue/216840
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Posted 06/16/2019   07:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Trainwreck. That info may not be complete but it is very helpful.

As for you, Angore; we are intersecting yet again. I think I see a UV response regarding PPP but definitely see a response with the paper showing "white" regarding ACP. I have not used long UV yet but don't really see the need for it. If I'm correct, ACP shows "white" and that alone distinguishes it from PPP. Am I correct?

Jack Kelley
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Posted 06/16/2019   10:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes. Even under shortwave, the ACP paper will appear bright white.
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Al
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Posted 06/16/2019   12:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Angore,

At present, I'm going thru my Machin kiloware pile (about 5000 off paper stamps) and am pulling out all of the 1/2p and 1p stamps. I can clearly see the white on some of them so I'm guessing those are the ACP stamps. This afternoon, I plan to change out the light bulb for long wave. I'm very curious as to what I will see. Also, I find it helpful to view a whole row of each stamp at one time. Its interesting to see the variations all at the same time.

C'mon the rest of you. We'd like to hear your comments and observations!

Jack Kelley
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Posted 06/16/2019   1:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
O.k., I enjoy collecting the Machins, but I am not interested in two things, 1.) gum, and 2.) paper.

With general stamp collecting, I prefer used, usually with readable postmarks. Back when the UK first started using Machins (when I had a head of hair), I collected some gum types and quickly decided that this did not interest me. The paper types do not seem to be different enough to attract my interest.

Also, I have no interest in the recent (past 5-10 years) of contrived/philatelic Machin-related issues.
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Edited by bookbndrbob - 06/16/2019 1:58 pm
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Posted 06/16/2019   3:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Bob. Your feedback is appreciated and I understand that not everybody likes the same thing. But I have some empty spaces to fill in my book. Anybody else?

Jack
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Posted 06/16/2019   3:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Or is this thread dead?
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Ecuador
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Posted 06/17/2019   03:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add novato to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Exactly, that's the problem, when Harris talks about an album for novices and puts the narrow values, or intermediate and puts the paper types.

The best way to collect Machins, unfortunately, is your own way, and that is the best way.

In the end I shot all the albums, and I'm putting everything in a classifier, I have several collections, in level 1, and others in level 2 / level 3 looking for easy pieces to detect such as phosphor bands or perforations of sheets, booklets and rolls .

what about the papers needs more experience. first select machins that have been manufactured in a single type of paper to compare, and then you can see the reaction under UV, then classify what you have.

This I would say is not for novices, not even for intermediates, this of the papers is only for crazy people (machin nuts).

Anyway if you insist on this, the forum of machins has incalculable help.

http://stamp-collector.co.uk/Machin...c.php?t=1017
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Posted 06/17/2019   07:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Novato. Very helpful. I guess I will spring for a handbook. Probably the CD. By the way I have been following you on the "Lets Talk Machins" thread. Actually, that's what started me on my Machins quest.

Thanks,
Jack Kelley
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Posted 06/17/2019   08:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I used Harris's pages as a guide of what can be collected. It is more complete and documented better than any I have seen. I will not use the actual pages. My goal was to development my own checklist of what I wanted.

The advantage of his pages are they methodical in organization to assist a collector into defining collectible items. You look at some of these specialty books and they are organized in various manners usually around classification but not always identification. For example, the Connoisseur book makes you know printer so not easily to do step wise identification.

I do not plan to collect all the paper types but I would like to know more about them nor care about head types either.

I do not have a SG specialized so no idea how they organize them.
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Al
Edited by angore - 06/17/2019 09:07 am
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