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Stamp Hinges?? Are There Any Decent Ones Made Anymore??

 
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Posted 09/14/2019   07:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Louise411 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I read that it is some wax, maybe beeswax, placed on the hinge.
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Posted 09/15/2019   12:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DrewM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is a lot of speculation in this thread, but some of it is only speculation. Here are a few facts about hinges:

Modern Fold-O-HInges are still produced and sold in Canada but they are completely different hinges from the original Fold-O-Hinges and work very poorly. They cannot easily be peeled off album pages. I'd avoid.

Modern "Denniisen" hinges (with the "e") are just the same as modern Fold-O-Hinges. They also work poorly and are clearly an attempt to fool buyers into thinking they're buying old-fashioned good-quality Dennison (with an "o") hinges which they aren't.

All other modern hinges commonly sold under every brand name you are likely to encounter (Prinz, Stanley Gibbons, Scott, Davo, etc) are made in Germany by one manufacturer of stamp hinges. I have compared at least 20 different brands of those hinges. All were exactly the same hinges. All peeled off album pages very badly, tearing away paper and would ruin stamps.

The color of the hinge paper is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the hinge is white or green since glassine comes in different colors. A good white hinge is just as good as a good green hinge, and a bad hinge is bad no matter what color it is. Discussing the color of hinges is a red herring, as they say.

Yes, "Dennis's Hinges" and other have been around for years, but that proves nothing. They were not very good hinges, pure and simple.

Generally, the thinking is that the reason modern hinges don't work well is that the glue formulation has changed. Modern glues can't includes ground up animal parts anymore. The result is modern glues which are much more aggressive and hold well, but are not peelable like older hinges were.
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Edited by DrewM - 09/15/2019 12:32 am
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Posted 09/15/2019   06:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When I was using hinges, I had the Prinz type. These are the ones that are always in some contorted shape.

After some experimentation, I believe that moisture is more critical with modern hinges due to the change in the adhesive. Control of moisture by the tongue is not easy. You do not need as much moisture with modern hinges to get a good bond.

With the hinge held by tongs (tweezers), by applying a very small of moisture using a q-tip to both areas, the hinge released much easier later. I had about a 80% success rate after aging a week or so. It only takes a small amount to get a good bond with modern hinges.

But I ended up switching to mounts since I am constantly upgrading stamps (in better condition).
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Al
Edited by angore - 09/15/2019 06:25 am
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Posted 09/15/2019   06:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I still say that Prinz is the best buy for the buck. Although I have five unopened packs of Dennison's, I use Prinz for my WW and Machin collections. I haven't really experienced too many instances of "peelability" and they hold stamps to the pages well. At one tenth the cost, you can't beat it.

Jack Kelley
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Posted 09/15/2019   07:08 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...Generally, the thinking is that the reason modern hinges don't work well is that the glue formulation has changed. Modern glues can't includes ground up animal parts anymore...


This is not correct; an online search for 'animal glue' bring page after page of sources.

Several people have tried to manufacture hinges using the original Dennison equipment but they all failed. The original Dennison hinges worked for several reasons. First the used layered adhesive on the hinge material. Second, the adhesive was textured (on all layers) and this facilitated easier removal. Applying the layered, textured adhesive is a very 'process orientated' procedure and no one knows exactly how it was achieved. The process is the secret sauce.

But if a manufacturer were willing to invest the time and money in figuring this out it could be done. Of course they would then have to recoup their investment and the hinges would be very expensive. ROI might take years and years.

So the business plan would be to invest lots of money to manufacture a costly, low volume commodity SKU and then try to sell them at several times the cost of the existing low quality hinges that many buyers are just fine with using (as seen in this thread), and then wait for 7-10 years before you saw the break even point. Anyone here want to invest in this business plan?
Don
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Posted 09/15/2019   08:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Would love to see hinges that adhere like "Post-it" notes.
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Posted 09/16/2019   06:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add m and m to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rogcam have you ever tried to separate old post-it notes once the package has been around the block a few times? time and pressure make them into a permanent block.
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Posted 09/16/2019   5:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add apastuszak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't even use hinges any more, but this thread makes me want to buy a pack of Dennison hinges off of eBay to store away just in case.

The sad part is that I had a pack of 1000 Dennison hinges that I used as a kid. I move to black mounts back in the 90s, and tossed them out in a decluttering purge. I probably still had 900 in there too.
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Posted 09/16/2019   6:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
m and m, were the Post-its the real 3M ones or cheap knockoffs? There is a huge difference. It will depend on long-term storage quality, of course. A couple of years back I found a genuine Post-It stuck inside a philatelic book cover used to identify the auction lot number. It still sticks well, has not left a mark after 30+ years. I've also found a few remnant sheets from pads in drawers or storage, undated but definitely old. Those were equally usable. That one in the book is still there just to see how long it will last.

On the other hand, (German?) self-adhesive hinges were made long ago probably using rubber cement. Those have left a soak spot on stamps. There is no residual glue now but the mark is impossible to remove without destroying the stamp.

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Posted 09/16/2019   6:23 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The verdict is in on Post-it Notes and similar adhesive markers! Though they are easy to use and may be removed from most paper surfaces, DON'T be tempted to use them in books. These seemingly harmless "markers" leave behind their adhesive, even when removed immediately. The adhesive hardens and leaves a film that becomes acidic. This results in eventual discoloration and brittleness of the paper. They were designed for short-term application to expendable documents and have no place being used on permanent records and books.

Source 'The Atlantic' article "The Dark Side of Sticky Notes"
Jul 28, 2010
https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...notes/60543/



Quote:
In 1988 the research and testing laboratory of the National Archives and
Records Administration (NARA) reported on the examination of two brands
of removable self-stick notes. While both the Scotch (TM) brand Post-it
(TM) Notes and ABM brand Attention (TM) Note Pads employed different
adhesives, the test results were similar.

Adhesive remained on paper to which the notes were attached after two
weeks of oven aging (80 C, 65% RH). Surprisingly, adhesive residue was
left behind even when the notes were removed straightaway. Neither
adhesive lifted electrostatic images when removed immediately; however,
both lifted electro#static images after oven aging.

The adhesive was not the only problem with these products. Several of the colored notes bled upon wetting. Most importantly, several of the removable note papers contain lignin and are alum-rosin sized. They will deteriorate readily and have potential to damage materials with which they are stored.

Source; cool.conservation-us.org
http://cool.conservation-us.org/byf...95/0255.html

There are also other white papers and research online which show that 3M sticky note leave residue and are not archival safe.
Don
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Posted 09/16/2019   6:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
After re-reading this thread, I can only conclude that you have to buy Dennison hinges. Top dollar if that is what you require.

I subscribe to the "rule of the 10's". That is, whatever you paid in 1970, multiply it by 10. There are glaring exceptions, of course. But it is a general rule. Dennison hinges is one of the exceptions. It is more like the "rule of the 100's". If you want to hear the band, you have to pay the fideler.

Jack Kelley
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Posted 09/16/2019   8:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The book was and is in a bookcase in a room that will go from 50 to 95 degrees F. and 15-50% humidity over the course of a year; not really ideal. And I am sure that the 3M Post-It was not intended for the long-term nor am I sure the original adhesive was reduced in quality in order to be price competitive. Still, Don, I don't store the book in the oven with the heat turned on to 176 degrees F. per the test. Testing using forced accelerated methods like dosing up mice with huge amounts of saccharin caused its ban in the US as a carcinogen in the 1970s. After further research saccharin was found not to be a carcinogen in humans and is now used today in the US. My "test" is at least much more realistic than the one Don cites.

Captain Obvious says original Dennison hinges will be gone some day. Lucky that they are still around, but it's only that the collector base has contracted so much that the supply isn't gone. Will you still be buying them when the price gets up to $40-50 a package and up? That's getting around the cost per stamp today using plastic mounts, but those prices will go up, too. Also, the machine that Prinz has will break down absolutely one day. Then what?

Controlled light application of moisture is what's needed for the current crop of hinges, but this unfortunately seems to beyond the patience and capabilities of most collectors. It has been mentioned to use an artists brush to remove hinges with persistent gum like the current crop of hinges have, but it takes skill and again seems to beyond the patience and capabilities of most collectors. We'll being seeing a lot more stamps with a thick Prinz-made hinge remnant left on, as seen on stamps I've been getting from Europe.

I feel the best of the current is the Dennisen hinge, believe it or don't. Light application of moisture is still a must, but the paper is apparently calendered (correct term?) with a lined pattern so that the hinge releases more easily. Too wet and you will still solidly glue everything down hard. And like other (Prinz-made) hinges, they can come roughly cut, stacked together in hard-to-separate clumps and curl and crumple in the package. But heavily licked/applied old Dennisons are still found and are still bad news themselves.
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Posted 09/16/2019   9:18 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Accelerated testing is not like mice/saccharin (which was not an accelerated test). Accelerated testing is meant to emulate in a short period of time what happens over longer periods of time. It is widely accepted testing method in government, military, and commercial applications. But folks do not have to listen to me (or you), they can do their own research and learn the facts. Like this article from the Smithsonian Institution Archives https://siarchives.si.edu/blog/post...-not-post-it

In my opinion Dennisen (modern) hinges are awful, a plague upon the hobby. Telling people to learn how to 'use just the right amount of moisture' is not good, especially for folks who are starting the hobby. They should also be aware that using them may impact the value of their collection when they go to sell it.

Would anyone actually use modern hinges on a stamp or in an album they cared about? Even if they 'used the right amount of moisture', who would risk putting a modern hinge on a stamp they cared about? Who would buy a collection of better stamps that used modern hinges?

Anyone who has ever purchased a collection with these hinges will find themselves sitting around trying to carefully soak off hinges while they trash the album page they are on. Not for me.
Don
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Posted 09/17/2019   01:37 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Who'd use modern hinges on a stamp or in an album that they cared about? Well I would, bisected and lightly moistened. And, unless I were in a position personally to examine every collection on which I bid at auction, I simply wouldn't know what type of hinges had been used and how well they'd been applied. I can't imagine that an auction house would take kindly to an enquiry about whether stamps in lot 999 had been carefully mounted using 1950s vintage Errington and Martin hinges.
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Posted 09/17/2019   03:23 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You agree that they can damage stamps but your advice for new collectors...use these hinges but only after you learn a special technique and exactly how to use them because if you don't, it will ruin your stamps and albums.

I have inquired about the mounting of stamps and received images of the hinges used in a collection.
Don
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