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Great Britain - 1857 Mourning Cover

 
 
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
6358 Posts
Posted 11/18/2018   11:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jamesw to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Picked this cover up today. Britain is not my area, but since it was crossing the pond to Upper Canada, thought I should give it a home



Lets see if I get the postal markings correct. Here goes.
First it sports an 1856 SC#27 - oddly trimmed of perfs on both sides.
This is tied to the cover with an black oval Chief Office cancel #16 (Chigwell). On the back is a blue London cancel dated July 31 1857. The blue ink indicated it was processed in the evening.
Besides the 6p paid with the stamp an additional 1p was due for insufficient postage and stamped in black also tying the stamp to the cover. This would be due on delivery.
The front also shows a black clipped diamond stamp dated August 1 from the Liverpool office, just above the notation 'per mail steamer'.
The red circle with cross indicates a foreign letter which was late due to being missorted.
The 2 1/2 stamp in black would indicate Canadian postage due. 6d per half ounce as of 1851.

Well, GB experts...how'd I do?

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Australia
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Posted 11/18/2018   11:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
James,
not an expert. I learnt I lot from your post (thus far) Thank you.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
6358 Posts
Posted 11/19/2018   9:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Rod. Not sure how close I came.
I gleaned my hypothesis from an online version of a book called The History of the Postmarks of the British Isles From 1840-1876 by John G. Hendy, published by Stanley Gibbons in 1909.

www.gbps.org.uk/information/downloads/files/postal-markings/The%20History%20of%20the%20Postmarks%20of%20the%20British%20Isles%20from%201840%20to%201876%20-%20John%20Hendy%20(1909).pdf

Judge for yourselves.
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United Kingdom
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Posted 11/19/2018   9:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi James,

I don't know anything about most of these marks but I can confirm that the "16" in a diamond within bars postmark is a London head office (Inland Section) postmark.

It doesn't have anything to do with Chigwell. The post office in Chigwell used postmarks in a different format with "16" in a circle within bars.
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Nigel
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Posted 11/19/2018   10:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I doubted Chigwell also.
I had never seen the red circle cross, the blue backstamp, and the Liverpool strike before, these were all new to me.

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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
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Posted 11/19/2018   11:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks gents. That info came from a chart on page 50 of the aforementioned book. No mention of the shapes used.
Comments on blue ink in the evening are on pages 18-19 and the red circle/cross mark is shown on page 58. The Liverpool strike is also in the book. I've used this source before on another Brit letter to the new world (1847)
As I said, I'm not expert on British post (or much else really!). Was just using (or perhaps misusing) the source I found.
Always learning.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
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Posted 01/12/2019   9:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi all. I want to revisit this one. Thanks to you folks above and some input on TSF (that other forum). I think I may have this one down now. See what y'all think.

So. My thoughts NOW on this covers are, postmarked in London according to the obliterator with the 16 in the diamond shape. Processed during the evening of July 31 1857, indicated by the blue ink used on the London date stamp on the back. 6d stamp (SC#27) for overseas mail and 1d handstamp to cover inland postage.
Rounded diamond shape handstamp is Liverpool postal marking dated the next day August 1. The envelope is marked Per Mail Steamer, but does not indicate a particular ship. I'm assuming since there is no cross border postage indicated from the US to Canada, the ship must have sailed to a Canadian port.
Checking the book North American Mail Sailing 1840-1875, by Walter Hubbard and Richard Winter (U.S. Philatelic Classics Society 1988), the only probable Steamer Line to Canada would have been the Allan Line sailing out of Liverpool. The Allan Lines mail steamer left Liverpool every Wednesday. As there was no steamer leaving port on August 1 (the last one had left July 29) the letter would have to wait until the next available ship. That would have been the S.S. Anglo-Saxon, leaving port on August 12. Because of the wait the letter received the red X in a circle handstamp indicating it had missed the packet.
The Anglo-Saxon landed in Quebec City on August 23. There a black 2 1/2d hand stamp was applied indicating postage due to carry the letter to Port Credit C.W. which is located on the shore of Lake Ontario just west of Toronto.

As an extra FYI, the S.S. Anglo-Saxon which was launched in 1856, ran aground in 1863 and was wrecked 4.5 nautical miles north of Cape Race Nfld, with the loss of 236 lives. It is considered on of the largest marine disasters in Canadian history.
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Posted 01/12/2019   11:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice treatment James,
saved. Huge learning curve for moi.
Deserves a nice "James" type album page..........

Do we know "Port ???" in the address?
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Edited by rod222 - 01/12/2019 11:36 pm
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Posted 01/13/2019   12:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 01/13/2019   01:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Bobby..shall chase that up.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
6358 Posts
Posted 01/13/2019   03:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I 'hung out' with a young lady who lived there, during my college days, but that's another story.
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