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1c 1857 Plate 9 Stamps

 
 
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Posted 12/09/2018   11:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jaxom100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
There was no post for plate 9 stamps so I made one. I would appreciate it if someone more knowledgeable on this plate would write an introduction to this plate like what was done with plate 5.

While I was looking over the old photos by Ashbrook, I ran across 4 photos of a full sheet of plate 9 right pane. I adjusted the rotation of each image and reconstructed the plate photos as best as I could and I colorized the image. This is what I came up with. The actual image is approximately 600dpi.

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Edited by jaxom100 - 12/09/2018 11:07 am

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Posted 12/09/2018   7:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
50R9




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Posted 12/09/2018   9:43 pm  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jaxom, here's one of my favorites, the "Ear Ring Variety", 10L9:



And to top it off, it's unused, and I think, mint never hinged.
I haven't had it certed, but will at some point.

Not a Plate 9 expert at all here, but I'll add a few lines here. My main collecting interests in the 1c 1857 issue are:
--Finding as many Type Va positions as I can
--Plating the "A" reliefs of all of the #24, Plates 5,6,7,8,9 and 10.

When looking at a top row stamp ("A" relief), at first glance it is easiest to determine a Plate 9 stamp, because on 17 of the 20 positions, there is a heavy dot above the "O" in "POSTAGE" on Franklin's shoulder.

So, if you have scribe lines and guide dots at the top of the stamp, and a dot on the shoulder above the "O", it's definitely Plate 9. NOW....the problem is finding positions 8, 9, 10R9....

If there is enough room at the top right, it's also easy to know if you have Plate 9 or 10 because the position dots are different than plates 5,7,8 (all three have 2 guide dots together at the far N.E. of the top of the stamp). Plates 9 and 10 have only 1 guide dot to the N.E. of the design (and one farther left above the Ornament between "L" and "Z" (IIRC, the "unnamed" ornament.

So, "A" Relief, 2 guide dots together-- Plate 5,7 or 8
Or, "A" Relief, 1 guide dot far upper NE, dot above the "O" in Postage-- Plate 9
Or, "A" Relief, 1 guide dot far upper NE, NO dot above the "O"-- PROBABLY Plate 10, with a small chance that it's 8,9,10R9.

Hope this is a helpful start.....
Thanks, Ray
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Edited by ray.mac - 12/09/2018 9:48 pm
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Posted 12/10/2018   07:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ray.mac

I also look for Va /plate 5 stamps, but they are so rarely seen at auction

I don't look through eBay looking for misidentified examples. Perhaps this is best way.

Siegel and most of major auction houses have perhaps had less than half a dozen offered last 3-5 years

Someone is hoarding them... maybe it is you! LOL

It appears majority of the Va stamps were auctioned at wagshsl sale 7 years ago, then disappeared
I'm making this up but just can't find any significant number for sale

Reminds of Scott 10 as well. Plethora of Scott 10a every auction but years can go by before a nice scott 10 is up for auction
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Posted 12/10/2018   09:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One way to identify 8R9 is to find it attached to 7R9 with dot on shoulder. Much to my chagrin, I did not win this lovely piece back in October...


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Posted 12/10/2018   12:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Caper123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful stamp Ray. And thanks for the plating insights!
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Posted 03/31/2019   4:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a vertical strip of 3, 12-22-32L9. Plate 9 is known for scratches between stamp images. In this strip 32L9 shows the scratch running NE from the bottom or ornament R into the next stamp at 33L9 (Neinken page 423), but 22L9 also shows a scratch running to the SE from Ornament Q that neither Neinken nor the Doporto archive documents.


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Posted 09/16/2019   6:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Identifying a new plating mark (an illustration of the process):

The first image below has been in my collection. It is Relief D, 10th vertical row, left pane, Plate 9 (identified by the thick center line). Hence it is either 40L9 or 80L9. 80L9 has a very distinct blob of color in the O of POSTAGE which my stamp does not have, hence it is 40L9. This position is not illustrated in either Neinken's book or the One-Cent Plating Archive. Note the mark indicated under the curved ornament at upper right.



I recently acquired the second image below, also a Type V D Relief. With no obvious indicator as to its position, I set about to plate it by examining all Relief D positions on Type V plates when I noticed the mark at upper right, which rang a bell.



It is not as prominent as the mark in the first stamp, but it appears to be the same. I am not aware that this plating mark has been identified before, for a position (40L9) that is poorly documented. Other indicators that these stamps are from the same position are the blurs under the TA of POSTAGE and the N of ONE. In addition, the straight edge on the second stamp suggests that it comes from the 10th vertical row. Finally, position 40 (part of a multiple) in the reconstructed Plate 9 left pane from the Wagshal collection (Siegel Sale 1006, Lot 1278) appears to show the mark as well.

Not exactly earth-shattering, but what appears to be a good way to identify a position that has been difficult to determine in the absence of a center line.
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Posted 09/17/2019   11:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
dudley - thanks, good to get that documented here.
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Posted 09/17/2019   11:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
While I was thinking about documenting new discoveries, the thought occurred to me, that we have these nice 1c threads by-plate on this forum.

We could put up an index to them - i.e. links, from stampsmarter under one of the 1c sections.

People could go to one of the 1c sections on stampsmarter, then depending on which plate they are interested in, they could jump off to one of the threads here.

Thoughts?

Don - is that an acceptable use for this forum, or should we leave things as they are, and people can bookmark or search for them instead?
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Posted Today  6 Hrs 59 Min ago  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
With respect to the Siegel 1006-1278 scan of the left pane plate 9 reconstruction - the 80L9 in that reconstruction is actually 40L9.

The blob of color in O of POSTAGE is on SOME 80L9's, not all. So you cannot use the lack of the blob to tell 40L and 80L apart.

If you look at the scans attached, you can see:

40L9 has orn O, has normal orn M, and orns H/H1 are present.

80L9, however, lacks orn O, has a weak orn M, and lacks orns H/H1.

So the design of 80L9 is far less complete than typical.

In addition, 80L9 has a plating mark, a dot in the top margin just above the top line, above the S of US. You can easily see it on the enclosed scan.

With this information, you can look at the Siegel lot and see that the 80L9 is wrong.


40L9 follows:




80L9 follows:

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Posted Today  6 Hrs 45 Min ago  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
While I was thinking about documenting new discoveries, the thought occurred to me, that we have these nice 1c threads by-plate on this forum.

We could put up an index to them - i.e. links, from stampsmarter under one of the 1c sections.

People could go to one of the 1c sections on stampsmarter, then depending on which plate they are interested in, they could jump off to one of the threads here.

Thoughts?

Don - is that an acceptable use for this forum, or should we leave things as they are, and people can bookmark or search for them instead?


Whoops, sorry I did not see this when it was first posted.
I will see about developing an index to these 1C SCF threads. Of course, folks are welcome to also submit plated images to the 1C Stamp Smarter Community project which archives images to a single database.
Don
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Posted Today  5 Hrs 56 Min ago  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Don.

It seems like some pointer to this off of the main 1c stamp smarter page would be good -

http://www.stampsmarter.com/feature...Plating.html


We don't appear to have a Plate 10 thread yet, but here are links to all of the others.

1c 1851 Plate 1-early Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/56958

1c 1851 Plate 1-late Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/57739

1c 1851 Plate 2 Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/58151

1c 1851 Plate 3 Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/52774

1c 1851 Plate 4 Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/59061

1c 1857 Plate 5 Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/61924

1851-7 1c Franklin - Plate 6....?
http://goscf.com/t/61515

1c 1857 Plate 7 Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/64931

1c 1857 Plate 8 Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/64749

1c 1857 Plate 9 Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/64965

1c 1857 Plate 11 Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/65663

1c 1857 Plate 12 Stamps
http://goscf.com/t/62576
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