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Grill Present? Year? Please Help Identify. Thanks!

 
 
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Posted 01/02/2019   1:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add 3opus6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I've seen this stamp image on the forums and was wondering if the members could assist in identifying year, grill/no grill, etc. This is about the best capture I could get, but will try again if it will assist in assessing the stamp. Thanks for any assistance.


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Posted 01/02/2019   2:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add alub to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Put the stamp in watermark fluid. The grill will often be easier to see as the fluid soaks into the grill faster than the surrounding paper.
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Posted 01/02/2019   3:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 3opus6 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks alub. I'm going to show my inexperience here: where does one find watermark fluid? Someone told me that lighter fluid would bring up the watermark--true? Dangerous/harmful to stamp? Thanks again.
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Posted 01/02/2019   4:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add craigk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From the scan of the back, it looks like the grill might...might... be in lower left corner. Extremely faint tho, with the poor light.
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Edited by craigk - 01/02/2019 4:21 pm
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Posted 01/02/2019   5:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add alub to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
lighter fluid will work. or you can buy this:

https://www.subwaystamp.com/WATERMA...fo/ZGKWATTF/

find a dark ceramic or plastic dish place the stamp face down and put enough fluid on it to cover the entire stamp.

The fluid is toxic, so don't breath the fumes or get it on your skin.

It will show up like a watermark. Here is a longer description of the process:

https://www.kenmorestamp.com/detecting-watermarks
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Edited by alub - 01/02/2019 5:20 pm
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Posted 01/08/2019   09:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just to be the skeptic... you know enough to know whether or not there is a grill in this issue, but you don't know what "watermark fluid" is?
Come on.
Grills on this or any issue are not a "I know nothing about stamps" issue, and this is your first post. Not buying it.
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Posted 01/09/2019   7:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 3opus6 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I can understand your skepticism. I still don't know much about stamps but I do know how to put in a google search for "locomotive" "stamp" "3 cents". When some hits came up that's when I discovered the grill discussions and also that this stamp may have some value. I had been told --don't ask me when--that lighter fluid brought up watermarks, which I had a cursory knowledge of in regards to stamps. I really didn't know there was such a specialty fluid as watermark fluid. My goal at the moment is to determine if this particular stamp might have value for the purposes of protecting it and if warranted, insuring it. I have enough knowledge about other life processes to do things by the book. That's why I came here; the members seemed open and knowledgeable. Now, all that being said, I certainly hope that if by some very remote chance this or any other stamp I've come across has some value, that the members of this site would not begrudge my asking about said value, the process for having it evaluated and the best method of looking for a buyer, if it should come to that. In these matters I am a novice. And I have not posted again because I've been tied up with other business. And, I need to find some stamp friendly tweezers. I seems that the community does not take lightly to touching stamps with one's fingers. Thanks!
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Posted 01/09/2019   7:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Aurora to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I began to work full time, and...missed this forum a lot(for the last 6 months). Reading something like this conversation - it's a pleasure that words just cannot express... I love you all. I missed the experts &...all those that are smart too.... and those like me...and those that just-just started...)))

Life is good. Life is wonderful.

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Edited by Aurora - 01/09/2019 7:48 pm
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Posted 01/09/2019   7:49 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi 3opus6,
Of course everyone is welcome here.

A large part of the skepticism springs from the fact that our community gets endless 'I found this stamp and am assuming that it is the rarest variety' type posts. Additionally, it is fairly common to 'press out' grills of this series to make this stamp appears more valuable (grilless variety), so used copies increase skepticism.

Hopefully this adds some context for you. My opinion on your stamp is similar as others, you will have to really work to try to find the grill if someone has previously pressed it out. Float in in watermark fluid and then repost some 'wet scans' for additional feedback.

Note that even if you do this, it is not the same as having a stamp in hand. So it is possible the feedback you get here is not conclusive. If that is the case, the only solution would be to spend some money and send it in for certification.

To learn more about watermark fluid use this link http://stampsmarter.com/learning/Ge...nFluids.html
Don
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Posted 01/09/2019   9:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 3opus6 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Don-

Thanks for your response and thanks also for your welcoming email of the other day. I want to reiterate that I understand the skepticism that members of SCF may have about a stamp such as this, or about my level of skill with this. I totally get it. I would also like to add that I am painfully aware of the adage "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing." I guess that's where I am at the moment; I took some information from the net and ran with it. And now that you've mentioned that grills can be pressed out, we've just increased the likelihood that this stamp is probably not worth very much. But I also can't explain away the momentary rush that I felt at being handed a box of stamps from a relative's estate and thinking that perhaps there was something valuable here.

Thanks for the link about the fluid. I had gone to the link that alub provided and I have to admit that I would rather not spend close to $20 on a toxic, flammable liquid that I most likely will not use very much. So, unless SFC insists on WMF I'm going to try and locate some lighter fluid, which I'm also not crazy about. And I will take the best possible images of the wet stamp. And I'll also post some images of some of the other stamps that we're found with this, the blue locomotive. I look forward to any comments that members of SFC want to share. Thanks again!
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Edited by 3opus6 - 01/09/2019 9:51 pm
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Posted 01/09/2019   10:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with craigk. In the view of the back, I think I see a grill faintly in the lower left corner. Faint or partial grills on this issue are not uncommon. I don't think the stamp has been pressed out to remove a grill as the impression of the design is still clearly sunk/embossed into the paper.

Lighter fluid (commonly Ronsonol) is found with cigarettes and smokers supplies in markets, etc. Use with good ventilation. You only need a couple of drops, enough so the stamp appears wet. Dries very quickly.

Really, the only good tweezers are ones purposely made for stamps as they have smooth faces on the parts that meet. Search "stamp collecting supplies" and you'll find those mail order dealers. If there are dealers in your area, they should have them.

Keep posting!
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Posted 01/25/2019   8:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Louise411 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have that train with a heavy ink postmark and no grill. Why is that stamp better with no grill?
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Posted 01/25/2019   9:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add codehappy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have that train with a heavy ink postmark and no grill. Why is that stamp better with no grill?


With the grill, it's Scott #114, the most common value from the 1869 pictorial series. Only worth a few dollars, usually present even in beginner's collections.

Without the grill, it's Scott #125, the rare special printing of 1875, which is worth thousands of dollars. It's even rarer and more valuable used in period, since they were special issues meant to be saved.

There are many copies of #114 that naturally have very light grills, and there are many others that have had the grill ironed out. Experts can tell the difference anyway because #125 is printed on completely different hard paper.
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