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Help With Lines Only National Precancels - What Are These Things?

 
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New Member

United States
4 Posts
Posted 01/07/2019   4:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add roadkill1954 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I'm looking for some help identifying the precancels on the stamps in the attached image (if, in fact they are precancels). I'm a long-time collector of U.S. stamps (50+ years) but only recently "discovered" precancels. I'm a little embarrassed to say that I was one of those who thought a precancel made a stamp worthless. It's only recently that I saw the light and came over from the dark side. Now I'm rummaging through my boxes of extras and discovering all kinds of cool stuff.

Anyway, I've been cataloging a pile of precancels and the bureaus and locals are falling into line nicely. But then these items showed up:

Here are my questions:
  1. I'm unsure of the 18c Washington because it might be either a precancel or an overprint. The wording was clearly added to the stamp after the image was printed.

  2. I'm almost positive the 9.3c Mail Wagons and 5.2c Sleigh are precancels but I have never seen a classification for lines only precancels. I'd appreciate some help with putting a type number on them.

  3. I think the 1c Dix and 39c Clark are ordinary cancellations but the gaps in the lines threw me. Is it possible these were precancelled with a roller?

  4. Ditto the 4c Americana. There is a trace of a third line along the perforations at the bottom. The lines appear to be pretty well aligned with the stamp which hardly ever happens with a regular cancellation.

Thanks in advance for the help and if anyone can provide a resource for identifying lines only precancels, I would sure appreciate it.

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
507 Posts
Posted 01/07/2019   5:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dkabq8 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Top Row:

(1) 18c Washington is Sc 2149a (Bureau precancel)

(2-3) 9.3c Mail Wagon is Sc 1902a (Bureau precancel)

(4) 5.2c Sleigh is Sc 1902a (Bureau precancel)


The bottom row appear to be bar cancelled (i.e., not precancelled)

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Valued Member
United States
241 Posts
Posted 01/07/2019   11:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rich60 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Roadkill
The Mail Wagon and Sleigh are referred to as blind pre-cancels. They do not specify a certain class of mail or location.
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Pillar Of The Community
5003 Posts
Posted 01/08/2019   12:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To illustrate the concept better than words, the stamps on the bottom row of the original post went through a machine cancel commonly used for large "flats" sized mail. It is easy to see how soaked examples could be mistaken for precancels - especially when printed squarely across the stamp.

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New Member
United States
4 Posts
Posted 01/08/2019   10:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add roadkill1954 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perfect! That's just the information I'm looking for. As soon as I saw the images of the flats it was obvious that the three stamps on the bottom row were post cancels. Thanks for the catalog numbers on the other stamps. The PSS has a catalog of town and type precancels and I was hoping to discover some information about how blind precancels are cataloged. The two Mail Wagon precancels look slightly different (although this could be due to differences in inking) and I wonder if they should be cataloged separately?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
682 Posts
Posted 01/08/2019   11:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wkusau to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Top Row:

(2-3) 9.3c Mail Wagon is Sc 1902a (Bureau precancel)

(4) 5.2c Sleigh is Sc 1902a (Bureau precancel)


In my 2017 Scott specialized the Scott numbers would be
9.3 Mail wagon Sc 1903a The second one is a plate number single Cat 3.25
I do not see any variations or other scott numbers for these Mail Wagons.

5.2 Sleigh Sc 1900a
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New Member
United States
4 Posts
Posted 01/08/2019   1:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add roadkill1954 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the additional info--I hadn't noticed the plate number until you pointed it out. But what I'm looking for is how to catalog the precancel itself. I am supposing that someone has spent some time figuring out the different methods and patterns used for blind cancels and I would like to know more about them in general. Any help along those lines (pun intended) would be appreciated.
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