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30c Columbus At LA Rabida, # 239, How Would It Grade

 
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Valued Member
Netherlands
273 Posts
Posted 02/10/2019   07:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don, would you be willing to share were and how the screen calipers work?

that would help me for further stamps
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Posted 02/10/2019   07:49 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
http://www.iconico.com/caliper/

They have a free download but the free version is not fully featured (i.e. it does not allow you to change the unit of measure, I think it only does pixels). Full featured is under $30.

I use the full featured version and enjoy it. It supports 'calibration'. In other words if you have an image element with a known dimension, you can set the calipers on that element and then tell the caliper what that dimension is. You can then measure other elements in that image and get highly accurate dimensions.

It also support semi-transparency, you can open multiple calipers, and you can easily rotate the calipers in any direction.
Don

l_iR1rm39Qg
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Posted 02/10/2019   11:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Given the centering, perf issues, I would grade this at 85.
The NG, while Scott doesn't list for the 239, it does for the 240 to 245. The 240 is 45% of the Hinged value. So if the 239 has a hinged value of 240, and since it has a good centering, 45% of hinged value seems reasonable, around $110, which is also just slightly better than the used value at $100. So marginal added value, I would say, not worth getting the cert. By the time you're done with that you'll have paid $35-$50 (with the grading) and if you want to sell it, you'll struggle to recoup the value of the cert, and a reasonable value of the stamp.
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Posted 02/10/2019   12:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the total lack of consensus on the grade of ths stamp should be required reading for those that see no value in getting a stamp professionally graded


Oh give me a break. All one needs to do to understand the SUBJECTIVE nature of grading is to look at a group of graded stamps. Ugly stamps will have high grades, better looking stamps will have lower grades... I know of nobody that is the final arbiter of what is appealing.
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Posted 02/10/2019   1:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are no ugly stamps. There are only aesthetically challenged stamps.
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United States
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Posted 02/10/2019   1:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Coastwatcher to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have never been a big fan of "professional grading." I do, however, see the value of expertizing if it's a stamp that might be forged or altered. I collect solely for the fun of it and could care less about investment potential. That being said, I'm fully capable of determining if a stamp is worthy of my collection. From 1920 on, I look for the best examples I can possibly find. For pre-1920 stamps, especially high-cost 19th century issues, I am willing to accept off centered, no gum, or regummed stamps to fill the holes in my collection if better examples are overly expensive. I am, however, likely to be much pickier about missing/no perfs and heavy cancels on used stamps.

I can't remember the details, but several years ago a common US commemorative of the 1950s (I think) with a certificate of something like 100, sold at auction for over $1000. This issue sells every day, ungraded, in MNH for less than $1. I'm sure that a great number of them are every bit as nice as the graded example. When I have more time, I will try to find the details about this and edit this post.

I would like to say that I do have several graded stamps but having a certificate played no part I'm my decision to purchase them. They just happened to be the right stamp at the right price at the right time. Like everything else in philately, it is up to each individual the emphasis they place on grading. If it's something you believe in, by all means go for it.
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Edited by Coastwatcher - 02/10/2019 1:49 pm
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Posted 02/10/2019   1:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mdroth to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the total lack of consensus on the grade of this stamp should be required reading for those that see no value in getting a stamp professionally graded



Quote:
Oh give me a break.


I couldn't agree more. What a silly comment. Very clear consensus here - between 85 & 90. Beyond that, it is a subjective crapshoot.

That fact that there are folks out there willing to pay $10,000 more for a 90 than an 85 is irrelevant. Moronic & sad, but irrelevant...

This one looks like an 85. I'll take a $150 '85' vs a $7500 '90' any day of the week. That's $7350 to buy more stamps!!
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Posted 02/10/2019   3:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lively debate here! The 239 looks (to me) like a borderline 90. The perfs at UR would probably cause the grader to knock it down to an 85. If it were a solid 90+, the same grader may leave it alone and call it a 90.

It would be nice and helpful if the poster would put a bow on this thread and let us know how the stamp ACTUALLY grades, if it is sent in for a cert. I agree with ClassicPhilatelist, though, and I don't think I'd send it in. The upside is small (I don't think there's any chance it would grade as a 95), but the downside is pretty big (suppose they grade it as an 85, THEN ding it another 5 points - or 10 - for the perfs at UR). I'd be happy with a nice 30c Columbian in my album, uncertified. Also - even an UNGRADED cert has the downside of a possible mention of the perfs. All that said, I could understand why you might send it in. Let us know what happens!
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Posted 02/10/2019   10:25 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I couldn't agree more. What a silly comment. Very clear consensus here - between 85 & 90


No, you give me a break. At the time I posted my comment. here is a list of the suggested grades that had been posted"

As far as centering I would venture at least XF maybe Superb
Probably get an 85
I'd say it's in the 90s...I stand by low to mid 90s
The stamp in this thread is not mid 90's. Perhaps a 90 and knocked down from there for other issues
Perhaps 90? Perhaps 85

That is hardly a consensus of between 85 & 90.

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Edited by eyeonwall - 02/10/2019 10:25 pm
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Posted 02/10/2019   10:36 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That fact that there are folks out there willing to pay $10,000 more for a 90 than an 85 is irrelevant. Moronic & sad, but irrelevant..


First you are making up a stupid number at $10,000, and more importantly it is hardly irrelevant when it comes time to sell your stamp.

To everybody - the person who stared this asked what the grade is, and he got a wide range of opinions. He did not ask whether you think it is worth paying more for a stamp with a higher grade. Entirely different question.
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Netherlands
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Posted 02/11/2019   03:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you all for contributing to the answers to my question. I found it very cheap in a cancelled lot, sometimes I like a gamble, so I will send it in expecting a 85 but hoping for a 90. of cousre I will let you know. I can only lose some % as I was planning on sending in some others (on witch I will ask your opinions later)

i do have a question:

on page 22 of the PSE guide (see below) there is a 117 and a 215 both graded 95J...but they are very badly centered??

the 117 is obvious to the bothem and the 215 same thing with a jumbo margin at top.

perhaps I am missing something, but I cannot see how the graded this good. hoping someone can explain it to me

http://psestamp.com/pdf/2009_Gradin...e_092009.pdf
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Posted 02/11/2019   03:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When considering Jumbo's, the centering is considered as if the "extra margin" didn't exist. The extra margin just makes it a "Jumbo", so if you place a "mask" over that area so it didn't exist, would the stamp then be 95 centered? That's how they are graded.
The "extra" is just that, extra. Usually caused by wing margins. So it may still grade high even thought the "balance" of the stamp is off-centered.
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Posted 02/11/2019   06:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ok1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Its not 95 because of the top right corner. I would say grade is 90 of this stamp.
Not considered the damaged top right corner,
I would place it at the same place than Siegel Lot: 1179 or Lot: 1156.
Your stamp is well centered but not intense shade and impression in color. The last one influence the price dramatically of this stamp.



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United States
654 Posts
Posted 02/11/2019   07:38 am  Show Profile Check orstampman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add orstampman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well-centered stamp, and appears to have sound condition. I would place this as a XF90 for centering. The upper right corner perforation just appears to be short, but I do not see any other damage. Good discussion! Am I missing something in the scan as to damage?
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Posted 02/14/2019   10:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SewallH to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I computer graded the centering and it is Very Fine/Extra Fine 80. I used two different computerized grading systems. It is not Superb or a full Extra Fine stamp. But there is something that is strange about this stamp. Look at the bottom of the stamp. The bottom right hand margin is narrower than the bottom left hand margin. Is the stamp properly scanned flat?

The defining centering issue are the horizontal margins. The vertical margins are only 8% different so that would be an XF/Superb 92. But the horizontal margins are off by 20% from each other, so the rating is defined by the worse of the two differences, or thus 20%. Thus , VF/XF 80.

I would rescan this stamp to see if the bottom margin gets straightened out a bit. That said, it is probably still a VF/XF 80.

13% of the stamp area is in the margin, so it is not a Jumbo. You would need to get to 20% in the margin areas to get to Jumbo status.

A really nice stamp!!!!!
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