Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Scott 158 Plate Proof?

 
Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member
United States
11 Posts
Posted 02/08/2019   12:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Burnside Bob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So what do we have here? Plate proof? Scott 158h?

TIA for your comments.

Burnside



Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
United States
6022 Posts
Posted 02/08/2019   12:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Trimmed perforated stamp.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1611 Posts
Posted 02/08/2019   12:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a pane divider at left, so it probably had a natural straight edge at left originally.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1534 Posts
Posted 02/08/2019   2:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Following revcollector and txstamp, the margin arrow is the key; Banknote jumbos typically come from the edge copies of panes. Straight edge copies were always disliked as they are now and until fairly recently, jumbos were less interesting to collectors of the time vs. perfectly centered stamps. So quite a few straight edge jumbo Banknotes had their perfs trimmed off to appear to be imperf singles.

At the top upper left: are those dents or does a perf gauge show that there are still traces of perfs there?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
11 Posts
Posted 02/08/2019   6:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Burnside Bob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Revcollector, you have sharp eyes!

Those do look like traces of perfs, not dents, at top. I laid another 158 over the top and the perfs match the dents.

Under higher magnification there were 2 more dents visible and I missed 'em all.

Burnside
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
673 Posts
Posted 02/09/2019   11:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, they are perf trace, the left as much of the arrow as possible, which meant sacrificing on the rouse of an "imperf" error stamp. It's on soft porous paper, and without the additional recut at bottom right, so just a big fat 184 with margin arrow, and perfs trimmed off.

Note on Edit: Yeah, I buggered the Scott #, don't know what I was thinking... I'm going to claim Anchor Bias.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by ClassicPhilatelist - 02/10/2019 06:50 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2001 Posts
Posted 02/09/2019   8:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think people see perf traces when they think they should see them, not that this is anything other than a trimmed regular issue stamp. I do agree that it is a soft paper stamp, so a big fat #184.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
3228 Posts
Posted 02/09/2019   8:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I do not see any perf traces even though it is trimmed.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
985 Posts
Posted 02/09/2019   8:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Al E. Gator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thought I'd throw this old post out to add to the imperforate banknote topic. No big deal just adding to the topic

http://goscf.com/t/27325&SearchTerm...e,bank,notes
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
673 Posts
Posted 02/10/2019   12:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rogdcam (and others)
Here's an image with arrows showing these perf traces. Magnified it shows a couple of others below it.
It's good to learn to recognize this minor detail. Sometimes they aren't visible as easily as these are. Put the stamp in fluid just deep enough that there is standing fluid in the dip tray, but not covering the face of the stamp. A light at just slightly off overhead angle will then show these tiny indentations as almost "highly magnified". The light is particularly useful in seeing the indentations then.


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6022 Posts
Posted 02/10/2019   01:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It always helps to find perf dimples, but for this stamp they really were not needed. One look at the paper from the reverse image should have been enough for almost anyone to tell.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
673 Posts
Posted 02/10/2019   06:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
revcolletor, that's true, BUT for collectors or newbies in philately that are inexperienced with Proofs, this allows the ID without the knowledge of proofs. (And even with that knowledge, if they are not strong in paper types, one might still confuse a 183P6 on stamp paper for an "imperf", and in reality, the no need for paper or perf remnants, the guide arrow alone demonstrates, it's a stamp and not a proof... BUT all that requires knowledge of proofs. The perfs (for this example), not required.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
2116 Posts
Posted 02/10/2019   10:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Classic, You state:

Quote:
the guide arrow alone demonstrates, it's a stamp and not a proof...


How does this statement square with Siegel Sale 816 (the Finkelburg sale) for example? Specifically lots 1731 (showing 150P3), 1735 (showing 153P3), and 1736 (154P3) which all illustrate plate proof multiples with arrows.

The residual holes are the true confirming feature of sheet origin. Are they not?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
673 Posts
Posted 02/10/2019   10:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John Becker,
I yield.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2001 Posts
Posted 02/10/2019   11:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The residual holes are the true confirming feature of sheet origin. Are they not?



Quote:
Here's an image with arrows showing these perf traces. Magnified it shows a couple of others below it. It's good to learn to recognize this minor detail.


If those dents in the paper are perf hole remnants, where are they further over to the right where the remaining margin is actually larger?



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
3228 Posts
Posted 02/10/2019   12:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Confirmation bias.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2019 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2019 Stamp Community Forums
It took 1.19 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05