Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Flag Cancels, 1905-1920

Previous Page | Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 31 / Views: 2,474Next Topic
Page: of 3
Valued Member
United States
222 Posts
Posted 02/15/2019   10:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BFRomeos to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mr. Becker, I appreciate the time you've taken to render an opinion. All truth is valuable.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
222 Posts
Posted 02/18/2019   7:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BFRomeos to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
With no further ado, here now is the modest collection of flag-cancels that inspired this thread. The third edition of Frederick Langford's "Flag Cancel Encyclopedia" treats the reader to a fairly exhaustive listing of known flag cancels, ranking the rarity each from 1 to 100. More precisely, it presents a ratio scale depicting "degrees of rarity expressed in percentage points." My best example boasts a rank of 12 (the scores below are prior to adjustments for clarity of imprint, etc.). So I shan't quit my day job after all.

The prize of the bunch, scoring a 12:

Score=11:

Score=10:

Score=4:

Score=4:

Score=1:

Score=1:


The late Mr. Langford of California is memorialized on Findagrave.com. So is the recipient of most of these cards, Mr. Burch of Minnesota.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
4417 Posts
Posted 02/18/2019   7:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Your Arlington Heights, Mass is a 55.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
222 Posts
Posted 02/18/2019   8:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BFRomeos to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Your Arlington Heights, Mass is a 55.


Okay. Then after adjusting for weak imprint...?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
4417 Posts
Posted 02/18/2019   9:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I stop at the original point value. I don't know of anyone who formally goes through any of Langford's discounting schedule for defect degrees, etc.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2479 Posts
Posted 02/18/2019   10:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are lists of especially scarce flag cancels. These often do not correlate well with the Langford numbers. There are some impossibly rare flags in the 25-35 point range.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by chasa - 02/18/2019 10:22 pm
Pillar Of The Community
1375 Posts
Posted 02/19/2019   02:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
hello chasa,

what would be an example of such a list?
where do I find it or them - in a book, journal or website?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
222 Posts
Posted 02/19/2019   06:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BFRomeos to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My rhetorical muse for the day: Why does the valuation of flag cancels remind me of the market for bitcoin?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by BFRomeos - 02/19/2019 06:58 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2857 Posts
Posted 02/19/2019   08:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You're comparing two very unrelated situations there. John Becker's comments in his first post still apply, however.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
222 Posts
Posted 02/19/2019   08:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BFRomeos to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One of the few benefits of being a philatelic rube is the ability to draw spurious cognitive parallels. That being said, this has been perhaps my most heuristically satisfying thread to date. Thank you all!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by BFRomeos - 02/19/2019 08:37 am
Pillar Of The Community
4417 Posts
Posted 02/19/2019   12:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There are lists of especially scarce flag cancels. These often do not correlate well with the Langford numbers. There are some impossibly rare flags in the 25-35 point range.


Yes, because the rating system is based in-part on calculated factors, there is room for deviation when compared to real collecting experience. This is especially true when a bundle of local correspondence shows up containing a significant supply of a once-scarce flag. And it is also true for resort towns where the vast majority of surviving mail is on postcards - finding a cover is nearly impossible. And oddly, there are some low-value flags which are more difficult than the point value would indicate.

There are 2 specialty lists I am aware of. (1) A list of "less than 5 known copies", which was compiled by a group of collectors in the 1960s. I do not believe it has been updated with later collector surveys, but I suspect at least half can be delisted/debunked due to new discoveries. I own at least 15 copies of one of the flags on the list. It would also not contain flags newly-discovered since the 1960s. And (2) some of the listings in Langford's Encyclopedia are based on government records of machine shipments to towns, yet no copy of a flag cancel has been found by collectors, thus a list of "unseen flags" which should/could exist. I am not sure when this list was last published or where to find a handy copy. And there is the "feel" that comes from years of experience which cannot come from a book or blog.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
1375 Posts
Posted 02/19/2019   1:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello John, thank you. Where was (1) published?
And shouldn't be (2) mentioned in some way in his encyclopedia, if they are indeed listed there? (he must have known while listing that no copies are known?)
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
4417 Posts
Posted 02/19/2019   2:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These two lists would have been in the Machine Cancel Society journal, so long ago to be of limited accuracy.

Census data on postal history is very incomplete - especially for items of modest value - and many collectors choose not to report their data even when compilations exist - it also takes time and volunteerism - and basic awareness of listing projects. Fred was also quirky about lists, data, and copyrights. Every author makes their own decisions. I have various philatelic lists which I have developed beyond the current literature, which I have not shared widely. Knowledge is power.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
1375 Posts
Posted 02/19/2019   3:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is also something written that you mention.
http://www.machinecancel.org/forum/...ginning.html

There is said that the "Missing town list" is indeed included in the Encyclopedia. That is interesting, of course, not matter how old the list is. In each philatelic area there are new finds, but the old lists he created from records which are perhaps not accessible today anymore are very important.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2479 Posts
Posted 02/19/2019   5:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One list that I find useful was published in the January 2002 MCF. I tabulates what was considered 'missing' in a 1964 (!) survey and which of those had turned up subsequently (up to 2002). A handful 'still missing' in 2002 have been discovered since. Some of the items on this list have a relatively low point rating.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous TopicReplies: 31 / Views: 2,474Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2022 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2022 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.22 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05