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Info About The #89 We Gave Away Last Month

 
 
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 02/13/2019   03:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi All,
As many of you may know, we gave away a #89 (Congrats once again dutchman1948).
There was some question over the cancellation, I had mentioned it as a NYFM, and it was challenged that the stamp was issued "too early" for an NYFM cancel.
Well, that is true, IF it was used in the year (and couple thereafter) that it was bought.
I have today identified that it is however, NOT an NYFM cancel, but interestingly IS from the LBN era (which is roughly the same time that NYFM cancels were also prevalent.

Today I have identified the cancel as a GEN-38 whihc is a New Orleans cancel, from 1873, as identified by Cancellations and Killers of the Banknote Era 1870 - 1894 by James M. Cole. (I KNEW I had seen this one somewhere, and now know what I had originally had in my head it to be an NYFM. Close, so I yield to stamperix who made mention of it being "too early", so you were partly right, but did make me rethink and dig a bit deeper into the cancel's origin.

So to dutchman1948, there's a bit more about your stamp and it's cancellation.
I'm attaching the main photo of the stamp here:



And the Cancel Image from the reference here:



Edit: Just wanted to mention the I+ rating from Cole indicates this cancel is somewhat common (I) but sought after (+).
His scale is:
I - Common
II - Less Common
III - Scarce to Rare

+ indicates reasonable appeal and demand
- indicates less appeal and demand
No designation indicates neither favorable nor unfavorable
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Edited by ClassicPhilatelist - 02/13/2019 03:09 am

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Germany
1251 Posts
Posted 02/13/2019   03:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
does not look like a match.
also a bit early for a "1873 issue".

what about the Simpson GE-E 96 (1861)?

I rotated the second image to match your stamp.
It's not perfect either but it's close.


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Edited by stamperix - 02/13/2019 03:51 am
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 02/13/2019   04:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi stamperix,
The illustrations are just that - illustrations, so they may not always be a 100% match.
But I like yours as a closer match.
Is that the Tracey Simpson book, or the Thomas Alexander book?
I don't have them.
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Germany
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Posted 02/13/2019   05:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Simpson and Alexander :).

you find it here as PDF:
https://www.uspcs.org/resource-cent...nic-library/

yes, I was also looking at your illustration again after I made my post and at the one I gave. Both don't match by 100%, but some details say it could be the 1861 cancel.
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Posted 02/13/2019   05:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stamperix,
Interesting. The more I contemplate it, the more I think it's closer to the GEN-38 than the GE-E 96.
The part that is in favor of the one you have found is more detached segments, but it actually has too many. Where the GEN-38 has no detached segments, but clearly some parts of the cancel are. So it's a tough one. My thinking now is neither are right, but the GEN-38 seems closer, particularly when you look at the central elements of the design.
Which page of the Simpson book is this on? I can't seem to find it in the 450 page doc...
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Germany
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Posted 02/13/2019   06:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am sorry, don't know why I said Simpson...it's SKINNER & ENO, of course, also in the same link as above, page 76.
Many things are ok with the GE-E 96 and could be a bit different when the cancel was a bit older or younger, I think. Of course a better match could be possible.
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Posted 02/13/2019   06:53 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply



Stamp image with corrected aspect ratio, run through Retroreveal, background removed to show just cancel.
Don
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 02/13/2019   07:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Don, very nice one. I was just trying to accomplish the same thing, but what are you using for that? I'ts a pretty manual process in PhotoChop.
-S
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Posted 02/13/2019   07:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
AH, now Skinner and Eno I have right next to me.
Let me have a look.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 02/13/2019   07:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting, my Skinner & Eno GE-E 96 is on page 74.
What is interesting is it's sort of 50/50.
The GE-E 96 if you take the bottom half of that cancellation and match it to the bottom and right of this cancellation, it's a reasonable match, but then the top isn't even close. But if you take the right and top of GEN-38 it matches the right and left of the cancellation, but then the bottom doesn't match.
So I can see argument for either cancellation, but not definitive for either one at the same time.
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Germany
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Posted 02/13/2019   07:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
at the end we will have to admit, that it's perhaps neither the one nor the other...
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Posted 02/13/2019   07:37 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scott,
I used both Photoshop and Corel PaintShop Pro.

In regards to IDing this cancel; for what my opinion is worth...it does not match either.These geometrics all have similar attributes and trying to match them quickly becomes a subjective Rorschach test.
Don
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Posted 02/13/2019   07:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stamperix,
I agree... it's from the "era" but that's as close as we're going to get at this point. With all the post offices around the country, and all the various stages of use, you just have to "get lucky" in my experience to actually get one of these head on, particularly off cover.
This is why the NYFMs are at least popular because it was one big post office that applied thousands of the same pattern over and over. So I think we can "agree" it is a Geometric shape from the era, i.e. contemporaneous cancel for the #89 But the specific PO or Cancellation type remains unclassified. I also have to yield that there is no definitive evidence of late use of the stamp. Could just as easily have been 1861 as 1878.

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