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Civil War Cover Or Not?

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Pillar Of The Community

Australia
1022 Posts
Posted 02/19/2019   11:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add duncanvr to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I can see these stamps have been placed on this cover. Do you think the cover is Civil War period or later? Do these stamps have any value? I know some of the early Washington stamps do have value. I'm not selling American stamps often enough to know the values. Any help identifying this appreciated, I need to list it and want to describe properly. I don't want to call it civil war if it isn't. Thanks in advance for your help and comments

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1909 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   12:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Magee's Union Paper and Envelope Store in Philadelphia was making these during the Civil war.

The slogan is also a common one of the period.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1022 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   01:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add duncanvr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks txstamp so it looks like it is civil war. How about the stamps? I have no date. The postmark is partial on the Washington.
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2560 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   01:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Unmailed Civil War patriotic envelope with 2 used (and untied) stamps added later, the 12 cent stamp not being issued until 1869.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1022 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   01:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add duncanvr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks John so stamps added later as suspected, the design appears to be Eagle? What is the value of the 1869 Washington? Any clues to what I should sell this for?
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673 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   01:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Duncanvr,
The stamp on the left is not a Washington, it's Thomas Jefferson. A Scott #76 which began being issued in 1863. It is clearly not originally from the cover, as the red cancellation on the stamp ends at the stamp. If it were original to the cover, that red cancellation would extend onto the cover. The other stamp is a 1869 USS Adriatic, a Scott #117. It is also applied, as cancellation is a round cork cancel, but ends at the edges of the stamp. There's also no addressee so this was never put through the postal system. The 76 appears as a reasonably nice stamp, centered a little high and left being generous an F-VF, would have a CV of $75. The 117 is poorly centered, low end VG with a CV of around $25.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1022 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   01:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add duncanvr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you ClassicPhilatelist that is great info I just need to decide weather to try auction or buy it now and list price
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1022 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   03:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add duncanvr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Based on everyones help for which I am thankful and a quick search on google I came up with the following listing. Does it look okay?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202602636542
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673 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   06:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's ok. Though its obvious in the photo, you might also want to mention that the envelope has a notch missing in the top center of about 3x3mm.
I think your price is a bit optimistic, but let it run for a 7 - 10 days, and if not you can always bring it down a bit later.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1022 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   06:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add duncanvr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I hope the description is good much wording from this post. I do say condition per scans in my listings so that should inc the missing notch at top. I'll run it around 30 days then may throw it in auction at a lower price. I may slowly reduce it a little each week. Start high and see what happens. Thanks for all the help- and good night from Oz.
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United States
990 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   12:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chipg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The envelope is from the Civil War period.
The stamps on it have nothing to do with the envelope.

You'd probably be better off if you removed the stamps from the envelope and offered them separately. (Most obviously, the green stamp is from 1869 - well past the time when Civil War patriotic covers expressed any relevant sentiment).
C.
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United States
6432 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   1:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 76 has a pulled perf and the 117 is very badly centered. They are both worth somewhere in the 10% to 15% of catalog range at best.
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1052 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   1:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Revcollector is correct. Both stamps are pretty badly damaged with such poor centering and the 5 cent one having not just as pulled perforation but almost a chunk out of that edge. Also, both are soiled. As was already said the stamps have nothing to do with the envelope which is also damaged. It is a put together contrivance that is not something that could be described as Civil War other than the envelope being a left over having been printed by a local stationery company for private sale during the war. It could have been created at any time after 1869 but most likely it was created recently out of some things that could not sell by themselves. My sense is that it would struggle to get 1 pound at auction rather than the sky high value you are starting your auction at. But then crazier things have happened on eBay and you may get lucky finding an uneducated bidder.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1022 Posts
Posted 02/20/2019   2:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add duncanvr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good morning from a rainy Sydney. Wow the above posts are completly different views to yesterday. I'll need some cafeen and a think about this envelope. No money in one pound actions I think I can get a bit out of it maybe 10 or 20 pounds to the odd buyer. You never know with buyers these days. I wouldn't remove the stamps just sell as is.
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1052 Posts
Posted 02/21/2019   09:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Condition is everything to 99.9 percent of collectors, especially stamp collectors rather than postal history collectors, though most postal history collectors also want the best condition unless the overall cover and use are what is being collected. As this is not postal history since it did not go through the mails and is rather a contrivance the condition of the stamps is critical. These stamps are pretty much just space fillers because of their centering and condition rather than something most collectors would value highly. The value of the cover is mostly lost due to the two unrelated stamps having been glued to the front and the bite out of the top edge. Had the stamps actually have been ones of the time of the war and been used on that cover during the war and correctly postmarked then their condition would be secondary as the value of a cover sent during the war would trump the condition of the stamps. Best wishes on your auction.
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Edited by Kimo - 02/21/2019 09:53 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1187 Posts
Posted 02/21/2019   12:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampman2002 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One fad of collecting which occurred in the mid-to-late 1800's was the collecting of these civil war envelopes unused.

You can probably go on eBay and find many of these.

By affixing these two stamps to the envelope, the value is now greatly diminished for the envelope. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, the stamps do not belong on the envelope and are damaged.

Whoever did this probably thought it was a good idea at the time....
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