Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

1941 Series Stamps? New Find?

 
Previous Page | Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 4
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6066 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   08:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These stamps are "provisional" usages that occurred because the equal values of the documentary reds were not on hand or available at the time. So they used these "emergency" stamps instead. This would only have happened in one or two offices for a day or two, so very few would have been used. These particular provisionals are previously unknown, but are in the same style as those used the year before. Since there would have been only a tiny number of potential opportunities of such a use, it is not surprising that it has remained unknown until now.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1116 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   08:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampman2002 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, so let's look at the provisional aspect. Where would someone in Arkansas have obtained these provisional stamps instead of the normally used 1941 or 1940 red documentary series of stamps?

I'm not questioning your knowledge, I'm trying to understand how this would have worked. Firm A needs revenue stamps. Where would they have obtained them? How long a lead time would it take in 1941 to obtain the stamps from the issuing source?

Comparing the overprint on the OP's document with the overprint on the 1940 stamps from the Siegel archives does show a good similarity in font and date between them, which in turn would imply they were government produced, should these prove out.

As to why they are scarce to rare, the idea that they would only be used for a day or two in one or two offices doesn't make much sense. If the BEP overprinted stamps, they would have expected them to ALL be used. I think it might be more likely that the BEP overprinted these stamps to use up existing stock of the older designs and that it was a short run of a few thousand stamps. These were then used normally during the course of business and having served their intended purpose, the documents were destroyed when no longer needed.

Does anyone know whether an inquiry into these overprints, at least for the 1940 issues, was ever made of the BEP? Are there any production records which could help explain them?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
307 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   09:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rismoney to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Amazingly enough, there actually are honest dealers out there


We're not talking about honesty. We're talking business. A dealer's interests are different than a collectors. They try to buy stamps at the lowest prices and sell at the highest. Thinking otherwise, a fool and their money will soon part.

A woman who never sat down with a dealer, and harped on his every word as though he was a deemed expert would not have the best interests of the stamp holder in mind. Please.

As for the Buy It Now situation, you played by the rules. Nothing illegit or wrong there.

I am just saying we think to think about the hobby and why people have soured over collecting. Those in the know taking advantage of situations is a big part of it. I by no means implied you did the wrong thing in buying it. I just think, a little more honesty and transparency is needed to level playing fields.




Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rismoney - 03/22/2019 09:04 am
Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1276 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   09:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For all those who don't know the other thread and not much about revenue stamps:

The new find here is the type of overprint on both the $30 and the $60 stamp, correct?

I think it's always great to read about such a find, also if somebody else made it :). If those were my stamps I also would have asked first in a forum or any certification service before thinking on selling it. In the case of a find of an old stamp (in opposite sometimes to a today's error stamp) there is no risk in waiting until the philatelic world has been able to know about it.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6066 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   09:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These revenues were produced at the BEP and shipped to the various revenue offices for their use. I suspect that a small quantity of these were added to this particular office's stamp order because the BEP temporarily ran out of those values while filling orders. That circumstance might only have lasted an hour or two, perhaps only just long enough to fulfill this one order. The BEP obviously still had some of these 1917 issues laying around and rather then destroying them they kept them for this kind of emergency. Provisional usages in revenues happened fairly regularly throughout the history of revenue stamps; this was not remotely a new concept.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6066 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   09:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rismoney-Apparently you cannot conceive of people behaving in more then one pattern. Or of the idea that a dealer who gives good honest advice today might get the opportunity to sell an item ON COMMISSION later, so that both dealer and seller get a good deal out of it.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
307 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   09:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rismoney to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
rismoney-Apparently you cannot conceive of people behaving in more then one pattern.


Maybe I have soured from too many stories of people getting pennies on the dollar for expensive stamps, stamp auction rings that were real of major local dealers and auctions, and the overall nature of market cornering. I'm a cynic. This is no surprise. So I try to push persuade people get advice from stamp "organizations" where profit isn't their primary motive at least get a fair assessment of what material they have.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
268 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   12:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StateRevs to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ummm...How could the Series 1941 stamps have serial numbers that are lower than the Series 1940 stamps?


Both of the serial numbers are in the same range of other known stamps of the Series 1940 hand stamped overprints.

The Series 1940 overprints do have some gaps and serial number jumps. Both the $30 and $60 denoms have gaps where serial numbers are known with overprints, then there is a jump of 5,000 to 10,000 where the stamps don't have overprints and then the overprints start again.

Additionally, the serial numbers are tied to the stamp series. So the series 1917 stamps have serial numbers that were then reused starting in 1940 for the reds.

Outstanding find and I wish they were mine!!!!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2037 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   10:04 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
there is a difference between saying show them to an expert dealer and sell them to the dealer
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6066 Posts
Posted 03/23/2019   10:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Another useful bit of info in regards to being genuine: The stamps were used on July 1, which is the first day of the new fiscal year. Presumably this is the first day that the 1941 stamps would be required, although I am not up on the specifics of the tax laws of the period.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
3407 Posts
Posted 03/23/2019   11:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is a great deal of armchair expertizing going on based upon scans and hearsay. I am hopeful that right now they are being examined by genuine experts. This is exciting!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6066 Posts
Posted 03/23/2019   12:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yawn
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
652 Posts
Posted 03/23/2019   12:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Series 1940, Series 1941 stamps in three categories, general documentary, stock transfer, silver tax were initiated because there was the belief that stamps were being soaked off documents after the mandatory retention period of three years. So beginning on January 1, the only stamps that were valid were the Series (current year) and Series (previous year). This whole system was initiated previously on the manufactured tobacco taxpaids (cigarette, Class A and B, cigar, small cigar, snuff, and tobacco) in 1932 with the inscription Series 102. In 1933, the Series 103 stamps were introduced, although the Series 102 stamps were still valid. The Series 102 stamps were demonetized January 1, 1934. The same applied to the Series 1940 general documentary stamps, i.e., they were demonetized January 1, 1942.

I believe that the Series 1940 (and now Series 1941) high denomination stamps produced by handstamps were done locally, not by BEP. They were left over stamps in regional offices. There must have been two local district collector of Internal Revenue offices that produced these provisionals, as there are two distinctly different handstamps. But since only Series 1940 and Series 1941 stamps were valid, the local offices supplied provisionals upon request in lieu of the BEP overprinted stamps (which were not on hand at these two district offices).
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Ron Lesher
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6066 Posts
Posted 03/23/2019   12:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Even the two on this document are different, with different spacings. Yet one would expect them to be the same if they came from the same office.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by revcollector - 03/23/2019 12:36 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
3407 Posts
Posted 03/23/2019   12:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Zzzzzzzzzzzz
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 4 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2019 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2019 Stamp Community Forums
It took 1.28 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05