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Canadian Postal Stationary U19

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 997Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
United States
799 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   6:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add gettinold to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I'm trying to catalog this piece. Looking in the catalog I notice this particular type is from 1905. The postmark on the envelope is 1931. Am I missing something or did the sender simply use a very old envelope for this correspondence?



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Posted 03/22/2019   9:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Am I missing something or did the sender simply use a very old envelope for this correspondence?


gettinold
I would say you are correct..It is from King Edward VIII envelope from 1905 which would be a Scott U19..BUT..U19 is shown as "King George V" and it is 1916..?..Strange.

Robert

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
799 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   10:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gettinold to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
wert

I saw that. It helped fuel my confusion. I did notice U19 under KGV circa 1916 but relied on the image shown under King Edward VII and used that year. Subsequent research on the sender after posting this thread turned up someone with that name who had been a stamp dealer in Canada and a member of a Canadian Philatelic Society. If he was like many other collectors he probably had vintage material he used for everyday mail. Found the following in Meekels:

"THE C. P. A. CONVENTION.
The annual convention of the C. P. A. held in Winnipeg, Wednesday, September 6, was called to order by Pres. A. H. Sutherland, who outlined the splendid progress made during the year, referring in particular to the remarkable increase in membership, thanked the officers for their co-operation, and expressed his regret at being unable to again accept nomination.
The reports of the officers were read and accepted. Some discussion developed in connection with Scott's Catalogue, the convention deciding that it would not be of advantage to again supply catalogues to the members as was done last year.
The following officers were elected: Pres., Fred Jarrett, Toronto; Vice Pres., Harold L. Pratt, Winnipeg; Sec., Frank S. Thompson, Winnipeg; Treas., Norman R. Hendershott, Newbury, Ont., Directors, Harry J. Couch, and George D. Gilbert, of Winnipeg, S. J. Haskell, of Edmonton.
The Board of Directors was authorized to revise the Constitution. 128 ballots were cast. A verbatim report of the convention proceedings will be published in the Year Book. Twenty-five members registered at the convention. Amongst well-known out-of-town visitors present were Dr. L. L. Reford, Montreal, E. A. Eedy, Saskatoon, and Wilbert E. Lake, Morden."
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Posted 03/22/2019   10:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If he was like many other collectors he probably had vintage material he used for everyday mail


BINGO


Robert
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
29888 Posts
Posted 03/22/2019   11:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would have another look.
The embossed stamp on that envelope is King George V.
Ergo, the cover cannot be from 1905.

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Edited by rod222 - 03/22/2019 11:54 pm
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799 Posts
Posted 03/24/2019   08:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gettinold to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rod

Understood. Unitrade entry for this item is confusing for the novice. Image placement in the catalog seems to suggest 1905.




No image appears for KGV listings circa 1916



I'm sure a more experienced collector would have connected the dots between entries. The publisher has a worldwide audience with varying levels of expertise. This catalog entry can lead some astray.
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Posted 03/24/2019   11:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Webb's to the rescue. It is Webb's EN39 or Unitrade U28 (1923-31) being heavily embossed and no lined hair.

The alternatives are Webb's EN20/Unitrade U19: less embossed (1916-21) or Webb's EN514/Unitrade UO15: lined hair (1930-31)

I hope Earle Covert et al. will get the new Webb's out soon!
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Edited by sak - 03/24/2019 11:35 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
799 Posts
Posted 03/24/2019   12:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gettinold to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
sak

I think you're on to something. UO15 fits the period of use. An image of the head reveals hair lines:




I'm going to add the reference material you posted to my must have list. Thanks for posting.
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Posted 03/24/2019   4:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Careful, gettinold. "No lined hair" means the hair lines are NOT printed.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
799 Posts
Posted 03/27/2019   09:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gettinold to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
sak

Thank you. Leaves one option: U28. Mistakes of a novice. Another tough cookie I'm trying to identify appears to me to be U6. Not a complete envelope but a used cut square. Not the best example. Seems previous owner tore it off an envelope. Couldn't find any sign of a watermark on this portion of the envelope.





I have a few other cut squares. Specifically, U9 & U11. These two are unused. Their condition makes me wonder if they are reproductions. They don't show the signs of wear and tear you would expect considering their age. Are reproductions known?
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 03/27/2019   11:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's EN4 (Webb's) or U6 (Unitrade): diagonally laid paper. You might be able to see a batonne line (light diagonal) when held up to a light. All varieties listed refer to a complete envelope: size or flap design or a watermark which need a larger surface. Both Webb's and Unitrade seem to ignore "cut squares". Unitrade has one sentence saying they're worth 10%.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
799 Posts
Posted 03/27/2019   2:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gettinold to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
sak

Didn't know that. Scott lists cut squares/entire envelope for US. Cut squares command a fraction of entire envelope. Little more generous than 10%. Believe the practice of destroying the envelope and saving just the corner amounted to philatelic butchery for some items.
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New Member
Canada
3 Posts
Posted 08/22/2020   1:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Phil Atelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
hello, reference was made to an article in Mekeel's. Can gettinold tell me what year or volume of that magazine was? Was it the original clipping in the 1920s. thank you!
THE C. P. A. CONVENTION.
The annual convention of the C. P. A. held in Winnipeg, Wednesday, September 6, was called to order by Pres. A. H. Sutherland, who outlined the splendid progress made during the year, referring in particular to the remarkable increase in membership, thanked the officers for their co-operation, and expressed his regret at being unable to again accept nomination.
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