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Is This Cigarette Label Considered A Counterfeit, A Facsimile, Or Something Else?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 755Next Topic  
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Posted 04/12/2019   8:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add James Drummond to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I was under the impression* that a manufacturer couldn't include "Internal Revenue" and/or "I. R." on their facsimile labels.

A real label is next to it.

What do you think?

Jim





* No pun intended.
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Posted 04/12/2019   8:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Moschophoros to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks kinda like a poor mimeograph. No experience with cigarette labels.
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Posted 04/12/2019   8:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add m and m to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
i think it could be a counterfeit. it could also have been used as a movie prop but I do not think so.
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Posted 04/12/2019   8:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The "R" is probably purposely broken to avoid the problem. So I would lean toward "facsimile", though if was used on fake branded cigarettes, that would make it a forgery. If you have seen recent patent medicines from Mexico, some will still have seals that look a lot like old US medicine stamps. I suppose it provides continuity and recognition in selling a product.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 04/12/2019 8:53 pm
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Posted 04/12/2019   9:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Such a close reproduction of a contemporary revenue stamp was clearly illegal. Might it have been done much later?
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Ron Lesher
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Posted 04/12/2019   9:36 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply



Original stamp + 30 seconds of digital image manipulation. Laser printer and bingo.
Don
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Posted 04/12/2019   10:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Possibly something out of an old cigarette machine. The "packs" for show were just a wooden block with a package wrapper and a facsimile stamp on it.
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Posted 04/13/2019   01:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ClassicPhilatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It reminds me of some of the curd forgeries, and wood cuts I've seen before in other issues. Attached are a couple.
Left CSA #2 forgery and right is a #209 forgery.




What I found fascinating is WHY someone would make this...
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Edited by ClassicPhilatelist - 04/13/2019 01:25 am
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Posted 04/13/2019   07:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 19th century forgeries are pretty easy to explain. Collecting at that time was geared to filling every space. Since even then there were a fair number of stamps that were rare, people created forgeries. Not to necessarily to defraud anyone, it was clear what they were, but just so that collectors could fill that space in an album. Obviously since the book "Forged Stamps: How to Detect Them" was issued in 1863 there were some very good forgeries out there by then as well.
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Posted 04/13/2019   2:33 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The change from "IR" to "IQ" at upper right seems to be pretty darned deliberate to me... I would think facsimile rather than counterfeit.
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Posted 04/14/2019   11:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's not IQ, just a poor IR.
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Posted 04/14/2019   7:20 pm  Show Profile Check ericjackson's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ericjackson to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I remember something looking like this on packages of candy cigarettes when I was a kid.

Eric
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Posted 04/14/2019   8:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Brings a whole new meaning to "original gum" then.

Lol.

Jim
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