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New South Wales Stamps With A French Cancellation

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Posted 04/18/2019   01:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
In a small lot of NSW material were these two interesting items.



After much searching at the magnificent http://marcophilie.org/index.html I finally found out what the cancellations are.

These are postmarks applied on entry into France, very likely at Marseilles. La Compagnie des Messageries Maritimes commenced a service to Australia in 1882, calling at Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney before going on to Noumea.

Unfortunately there's not enough of the postmark to determine which of the 24 possibilities it could be. These stamps were superseded in 1888 so the postmarks will date between 1882 and 1888. I wonder if they were originally on a letter posted in Noumea?

Edit:
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Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 04/18/2019 01:38 am

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Posted 04/18/2019   01:58 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting cancellations Bobby De La Rue.

Congratulations on your 1000th post!
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Posted 04/18/2019   04:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not seen before Bobby, on any Aussie stamp that I can recall,
excellent research.
Onwards to 2000
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Posted 04/18/2019   04:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Gentlemen
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Posted 04/18/2019   3:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Bobby De La Rue

Quote:

These are postmarks applied on entry into France, very likely at Marseilles. La Compagnie des Messageries Maritimes commenced a service to Australia in 1882, calling at Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney before going on to Noumea.
Unfortunately there's not enough of the postmark to determine which of the 24 possibilities it could be. These stamps were superseded in 1888 so the postmarks will date between 1882 and 1888. I wonder if they were originally on a letter posted in Noumea?


I have many facts to refute most of the above comments.

https://www.stampcommunity.org/uplo...LRFrance.jpg

Even though not visible in entirety, it can safely be deduced that the octagonal postmarks on both stamps are the same.

Both are Fr. Maritime Ligne T (Marseille-Nouméa) markings used in Route 3 (As Suwais, Misr-'Adan, Yaman-Mahé, Seychelles-Saint-Denis, Réunion-Port Louis, Mauritius-Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney, Australia-Nouméa, Nouvelle Calédonie).

The inscription above the date (in central circle) is POSS. ANG which stands for Possessions Anglaises (English Possessions) and below the date is PAQ. FR. T No followed by the set no.

Salles records 9 different types of Ligne T Poss. Ang. octagonal markings and among them, only 1 type (Salles 2.153/6) has thick border as are shown here on the NSW stamps.



Ref. La Poste Maritime Française (Tome VI: Les Paquebots de l'Océan Indien Réunion-Maurice-Australie-Nouvelle Calédonie-Bombay-Océanie-Madagascar.
Raymond Salles.
private, Paris, France 1969
Chapitre III: Les Différentes Ligne T
Les Cachets à Date Ligne T de 1866 à 1903
B: Les Cachets d'Escale ou de Provenance
Provenances Colonies Anglaises (Type Divers); p.59

So, both Ligne T Poss. Ang. marks are from set no.6 which incidentally was exclusively used from 08.30.1883. to 07.18.1887. period by Paquebot Salazie, a 4200 ton mail steamer of Compagnie des Messageries Maritimes, plying between Marseille and Sydney from 1883 to 1911, completing 25 voyages.

Paquebot Salazie


Secondly, Poss. Ang. marks were used on mail originating from Br. possessions en route Ligne T, here certainly on mail from Sydney, Asutralia.

Mail originating from Nouméa in Fr. possession Nouvelle Calédonie, sent in Ligne T, was always canceled with octagonal COL. FR. marks denoting Colonies Françaises.

So, the marks here used on board of Salazie after sailing from Sydney, not in Marseille nor the NSW stamps here were used in Nouméa.

If the dates were completely visible, it could have easily been ascertained in between which two seaports the stamps were canceled based on the ship itineraries.
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Posted 04/18/2019   5:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow!

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Posted 04/18/2019   5:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so much Joy for all the additional information. I knew that the postmarks said POSS A and PAQ F so I based my information on that. I also thought they were the same postmark, indeed I think the stamps were originally on the same envelope.

The images below are the information I obtained from the website I alluded to.






They have been translated from French so when I saw 'Entry Mark' I assumed (incorrectly of course) that the postmarks would've been applied in France. I based this assumption on certain practices in New South Wales. From the dates I could see 24 possibilities from the list provided on the website so to have it narrowed down is wonderful

To add to the intrigue, here's two NSW stamps cancelled in New Caledonia.



Thanks again Joy, I will add this information to my files.
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Posted 04/19/2019   04:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 04/19/2019   04:36 am  Show Profile Check KGV Collector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Totally totally amazing info!
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Posted 04/19/2019   5:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the link perf12
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Posted 12/02/2020   7:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hijacking a great thread. (Nowhere else to put them)

Ausipex '84
AIR Sc#C2001 and C2001A

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Posted 12/03/2020   01:36 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting cancellations Bobby De La Rue.

I also like the flaw on the C of PENCE at right. Are you able to provide a better resolution scan of that please?
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Posted 12/03/2020   6:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Apologies for the delay fairdunkumstamps.

Scans of both below.




Well spotted
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Posted 12/04/2020   07:01 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry Bobby De La Rue, I can't take credit for spotting the difference in those C's

I should have specified upper right C on the right stamp - I was interested in the colour around this one:
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Posted 12/04/2020   2:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I should have specified upper right C on the right stamp


I tried in vain to see any difference, I was discombobulated.

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Posted 12/04/2020   4:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry for that fairdinkumstamps.

I had a look and it looks like crayon or pencil, not the stamp printing ink.
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