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Can Someone Help Me Identity This Vatican Zepplin Cover Sieger208?? 1933?

 
 
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Valued Member

United States
7 Posts
Posted 05/15/2019   5:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add fhunter1234 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I am looking for the communities help in identifying this zeppelin cover.

I'm guessing it is a Sieger 208V?? My confusion is that it doesn't have Italian zeppelin stamps on it. Can someone help me out with this one?

Thanks.


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Valued Member
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United States
352 Posts
Posted 05/15/2019   6:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add codehappy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There was no requirement that dirigible-flown mail had to carry zeppelin stamps: they just had to have the correct air mail rate paid. Most dirigible-flown covers don't have matching stamps. (These covers are worth considerably more with Zeppelin stamps though.)

This flight (29 May 1933) is listed as #Z11 in Sassone. The prices given there are for foreign-bound letters, though, not souvenir postcards (which are more common).

Watch out for added stamps and forged cachets/cancels.
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Pillar Of The Community
1005 Posts
Posted 05/16/2019   11:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a card, not a cover. The rate for a card to be carried on a "circuit of Rome" 3 Lira, a cover was 5 Lira. Carriage of a card to Brazil was 10 Lira and a cover was 12 Lira. Cards to other places in South America were 15 Lira and covers were 30 Lira. Vatican dispatches (your card is a Vatican dispatch flown on the circuit around Rome flight) have a combination of Vatican and Italian stamps. Dispatches from other countries have their own country's stamps. Values of these cards and covers vary widely depending on the value of the used stamps on them. Unfortunately your card does not have the specially issued Zeppelin stamps so it would not be in the value range of one that does so if you look at sales of covers flown on this flight you need to pay close attention to what the stamps used are rather than just the flight it was on.
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Valued Member
Spain
120 Posts
Posted 05/16/2019   2:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Roberto59 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see the logic of shipping.
From the Vatican (Rome) to Rome by Zeppelin?
It's faster walking.
Origin, destination and method, ensures a philatelic shipment.
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
4152 Posts
Posted 05/16/2019   2:32 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed. For pure philatelic dross, Zeppelin-related material must be hard to beat.
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France, Metropolitan
2073 Posts
Posted 05/16/2019   2:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The first Zeppelin flight LZ-127 occured on the 29th of May 1933.The letters with Rome
as destination from the Vatican or even Rome were simply dropped from the zeppelin as it was taking off. Philatelic for sure but it was in the zeppelin…

He left on May 28 around midnight from his base in Friedrichshafen, near Lake Constance, flew by night Basel, Besançon, Lyon, Avignon and Marseille, arrived at dawn in Nice and along the coast during the day of 29 to Civitavecchia. He arrived over Rome around 16:30 and landed at Ciampino airport. King Victor Emmanuel III with his family, the Minister of Aeronautics Italo Balbo, the Minister of the Navy Giuseppe Sirianni, the German Ambassador Ulrich von Hassel and Goebbels were waiting for him on the tarmac. After embarking new passengers, he took a turn over Rome, then left for Germany.

https://litalieparsestimbres.wordpr...af-zeppelin/

another example:

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Netherlands
505 Posts
Posted 05/16/2019   5:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Johan Buvelot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Michel Zeppelin catalogue gives the number 304B(there are 3 numbers 304 B) this is the second, A combination of normal Italian and normal Vatican postage.

The catalogue value is higher than an example with Italian Zeppelin stamps.

A certain combination of normal postage stamps can beat zeppelin stamps when it comes down to catalogue value, even taking into consideration postcards versus covers.

Please note that I presume that every reply you recieved is based on the thought that the card is genuine. I cannot comment what I think based on a picture, Ik can personally say that I hope it is correct. But also have to be honoust I do not like short incomplete typed adresses.

Kind regards,

Johan.

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Valued Member
United States
7 Posts
Posted 05/17/2019   05:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add fhunter1234 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Everyone in this community. THANK YOU ! As I am relatively new to collecting this is exactly the kind of guidance and help I need.
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Pillar Of The Community
1005 Posts
Posted 05/17/2019   08:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When collecting flight covers, whether they are Zeppelin or any other kind of flights, most collectors prefer ones that have airmail stamps, especially when special airmail stamps have been issued specifically in recognition of that flight. Otherwise, any other valid airmail stamps are ideal. A few other things to keep in mind as you develop you collection: condition is critical - this card is what you should look for - clean, crisp, zero tears, folds, creases, wrinkles, dirt, smudges, etc; clarity and easy legibility of all postmarks, cachets and supplemental marks is essential; neatness of the cover is important including either typed or preprinted addresses and return addresses or ones handwritten neatly and attractively are important; receiving postmarks are essential to prove they were actually carried on that flight; covers are preferred over cards; personal sized or (number 6 sized) covers are strongly preferred over legal sized envelopes as the smaller covers display more easily than large sized ones; autographs of the pilot and crew add great value to a flight cover; autographs of postmasters, politicians, cachet designers, etc add zero value. Also, all of the dates in the cancels and receiving marks must be correct - if they are not then the cover was not flown and it has no value as a flight cover. And it needs to be listed in one of the standard catalogs of first flight covers or if it is not then there must be accompanying research that proves conclusively it is a previously unknown flight. If you do not have all of the appropriate catalogs for your area of interest, as well as some of the basic research books then you should start to buy those before you buy covers as they will save you a great deal of money in the long run.
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Edited by Kimo - 05/17/2019 08:30 am
Valued Member
United States
7 Posts
Posted 05/17/2019   09:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add fhunter1234 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What would you advise as references that I can acquire use (both printed and internet) for collecting Zeppelin covers? I have Sieger, Michel and Frost. Other guides I havent been able to find since they are out of print and not available any place I have found on the internet. Please advise? Thank you.
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Valued Member
United States
258 Posts
Posted 05/17/2019   10:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Neeskens13 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For Zeppelin mail of Italy/Italian colonies, San Marino and Vatican City, the catalog by Fiorenzo Longhi is a must.
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Pillar Of The Community
1005 Posts
Posted 05/19/2019   1:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The name of the Fiorenzo Longhi Italy and colonies zeppelin catalog is 'CATALOGO STORICO DESCRITTIVO DEGLI AEROGRAMMI ZEPPELIN DI ITALIA - COLONIE ITALIANE SAN MARINO - VATICANO - 1929-1939'

Sieger Zeppelinpost-Katalog, 22. Auflage is the single most important reference catalog, though you need to understand that the values listed are out of date as this edition was published in 2001. Some values have risen, some have fallen so they are not as useful as studying actual selling prices in auctions - both on line and in philatelic auction houses. And keep in mind that all of those factors that I mentioned can significantly affect selling prices.

Another catalog that you do not mention already having that would be worth picking up would be the American Air Mail Catalog Fifth EDition, Volume 1. This Volume has additional information that is not in Sieger. Keep in mind with this catalog, though, that it was printed in 1974 so the prices are not useful, but rather it is the text describing flights that is the value. While this Volume is long out of print these are not difficult to find and prices for used catalogs are modest - with a bit of patience you should be able to get one in excellent condtion for around $15, give or take a bit, on eBay.
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Pillar Of The Community
Singapore
676 Posts
Posted 07/05/2019   11:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add pennyblackie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For a collector buying the occasional zepellin cover, there is no need to buy a specialised catalogue for it, unless he intends to build up a collection in that area.
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Pillar Of The Community
1005 Posts
Posted 07/09/2019   11:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was thinking that if someone is interested enough to buy a piece of postal history then they would likely want to know about the history of it and what is an appropriate price to pay. Buying random covers without knowing anything about them is not much fun not to mention it can be a good way to wind up with a forgery or pay far more than the cover may be worth. Learning about covers through catalogs and other philatelic literature make collecting them fun and helps a person avoid mistakes.
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