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Needing Help To Identify This Washington A140 Stamp

 
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Posted 05/20/2019   11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Dan Townsend to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi everyone again;
I scratch my head just to identify these Washington a140 stamps so
many variations.
I do have a stamp that is real interesting maybe I could get some help
on this guy.
Thanks Dan
This stamp has no secret mark it is 22 1/4 length x19 1/2 or 3/4 withe
I think its a type II maybe wrong .Perforations are vertical 10
Any clues
Here's a few pic's



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Posted 05/20/2019   11:35 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Dan,
Not sure if you have looked at this page... http://stampsmarter.com/1847usa/192...4vs634A.html
Don
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Posted 05/20/2019   12:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank You Don;
That's is great
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Posted 05/20/2019   5:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I guess it must be rare if nobody has any idea what this stamp is.
So Im guessing it is a Scott 539 and that this is because of the size 19x 22 1/2 the color and
the fact it has no watermark I know its missing the top perforations for some reason dont know why.
It could be something else but so far I don't see a stamp to compare it to .
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Posted 05/20/2019   6:30 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well doh, please ignore my post/link above; it references wrong page. (I really should not post while in dialysis, mental acuity is not what it should be!)
Correct link is
http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa...p10coil.html

Don
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Posted 05/20/2019   6:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dan, We were watching to see how you went along your journey to ID the stamp yourself. You are going mostly in the correct direction - I agree it is a type II design, which is significant progress to figure this out with few stamps to compare against. And partly in an incorrect direction - you should look under the coil category, rather than sheet format.
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Posted 05/20/2019   8:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi John thanks for the post.
I Have a identification guide that helps to identifying stamps from 1847 to 1034.
I was not really to sure about it being a type II.
But in the book it helped to see all the other a140's and to compare them to.
The color of 539 was "carmine rose" I think the other stamp with the same size was a 546 type III
"carmine rose deep" which I believe my stamp isn't "deep" mine is a very lighter color.
Also the 546 was a type III which I believe it isnt one .
I did look at the coil category it is what I first thought to be but it was a "carmine color"
and the definition of the size there was none in the book but I do see a size in the Scott's catalog horizontally scotts 487 type II 454 seemed liked another possibility but the size was wrong it was to small 19 1/2 to 20 mm to 22mm my stamp was mine is a 22 1/4 x 19 3/4 it is totally possible it is a 454 but its a red or carmine .
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Posted 05/20/2019   8:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Consider the rate of perforation, which sides are perforated (i.e., sheet or coil), and the watermark among the first items.

Don't get caught up in the dimensions and the color - in my experience, it is best to ignore them until well-along in the ID process, if considered much at all.
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Posted 05/20/2019   9:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not seeing how you guys are coming up with Type II.
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Posted 05/20/2019   9:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I could be convinced of type I also, the magnification of the hair may be fooling me. Sometimes one takes what is written in previous posts and runs with it.
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Edited by John Becker - 05/20/2019 9:37 pm
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Posted 05/20/2019   9:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi John;
I dipped the stamp in lighter fluid to see if there is a water mark" no watermark I could see".
Its a 10 rated perforation if that is what you mean, I don't know what you are talking about with the which sides are perforated ie. sheet or coil.
Thanks John Im not a expert but Im trying.
Just want to know what this stamp is.
It may not be a 539 and that's all right .
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Posted 05/20/2019   11:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philazilla to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I vote for Type I. If that's the case, and it is a genuine coil, that narrows it down to a 444 or 453, both decently valuable stamps, however all Type I coils have a SL watermark. SL watermarks can be notoriously difficult to see. If there really is no watermark, the only options are a the Type II 491 rarity or a Type III 492, and It looks nothing like a Type III. . .Or it could be a fake coil.

These stamps are among the most difficult to identify of all US stamps. . .it is a process of elimination. . .and you have to start with the easy stuff. . .this is [apparently] a perf 10 vertical coil. That right there narrows it down to only 6 scott numbers (And all of them are rotary press, so the design dimensions don't matter - you check those to see if it is a rotary press or flat plate issue). You checked the watermark, that narrows it down to only 2 possible stamps. ..the next step would be to check the type. Color doesn't matter to identify your stamp.

You can check the stamp height to get an idea if it is a genuine coil or if it is a possible fake. It should measure 25mm high. . .anything less makes it a likely fake coil.
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Posted 05/20/2019   11:26 pm  Show Profile Check cfrphoto's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Sinclair2010:

The place to look first is at the lock of hair behind George Washington's ear, unfortunately not shown. If the bottom hair is much shorter, the stamp is type I. If the bottom hair is slightly shorter than the top hair, the stamp is type II. The bottom hair is longer if the stamp is type III. Look at detail area number 9 in Stamp Smarter:

http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa..._03main.html

http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa...k/2cA09.html

I wish the 1847USA site had more links. I believe that the 2cT01_03main page is the most useful page on the entire 1847USA site, but it is sometimes hard to find, a problem inherited from the original site.

The other places to look are area 2, the ribbon, and area 6, the lines under George Washington's ear. The gap below the ear is especially important for identifying rotary press type I coils.

Color and perf hole size can also help identify some early rotary press coil.

The color of the stamp on my monitor suggests that it is type II with a watermark. Unwatermarked type II horizontal coils are extremely scarce and don't seem to exist in any of the brighter shades seen on watermarked type II stamps. Type I watermarks are usually easy to see.

Later printings of type III coils are sometimes confused with other types because too much ink was wiped from the plate leaving some lines unprinted or partially printed.

@Dan Townsend:

First, determine the stamp format (sheet stamp, horizontal coil, vertical coil or booklet pane. If the stamp is a coil, determine if it is a rotary press coil by comparing the size of the design with a sheet stamp. Alternatively, if the 2 stamp is not type I, it must be rotary press. Coil waste stamps, Scott 538, 539 (type II), 540 (type III) and 541 are perforated 11 x 10 from broken coil rolls or fragments too short to strip into coil rolls. The Stamps you are looking at could be 453, 454, 455, 491 (almost impossible), or 492. If the stamp is type I, it must be Scott 453. If it is type II, it is most likely a Scott 454 with a faint watermark. Scott 491 is scarce and Scott 439 is very scarce.
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Edited by cfrphoto - 05/20/2019 11:36 pm
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Posted 05/20/2019   11:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philazilla to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Quick correction. . .of the 6 possible vertical coils, one is flat plate. . number 444 which this stamp could possibly be.
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Posted 05/20/2019   11:40 pm  Show Profile Check cfrphoto's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Quick correction. . .of the 6 possible vertical coils, one is flat plate. . number 444 which this stamp could possibly be.


The stamp is a horizontal rotary press coil. The aspect ratio, color, ink wash, narrow margins and alignment of perforations between rows would not occur on a flat plate 444 coil.
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Edited by cfrphoto - 05/20/2019 11:41 pm
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Posted 05/20/2019   11:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philazilla to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The perfs are vertical, so it is a "vertical coil," but fair enough on ruling out a flat plate coil. The OP has 5 stamps to consider.
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