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Probably 3 Cent Scott 64/A

 
 
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Valued Member

Italy
187 Posts
Posted 06/17/2019   01:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add pisti1978 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Good morning
as promised in another discussion, I move this 3 cents 1861, in my humble opinion, consulting with other similar stamps sold in American auctions, this stamp is very close to the color Pigeon Blood Pink (64a)no hinge, cordially greeting Simone

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Valued Member
United States
77 Posts
Posted 06/17/2019   05:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Turff49 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Really hard to tell from scans. Colors are really hard to differentiate due to differences in monitors, programs, scanners, etc. Having said that, I'm not seeing the blue undertones you'd expect to see on a 64a. Just from the pic I'd have to go with 64. Worth sending for a cert though.
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United States
578 Posts
Posted 06/17/2019   06:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gettinold to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Simone

The Philatelic Foundation has numerous examples of 64a. Here is one of their examples




Have you used their database yet for certificate search? It can be very useful. Highly recommend it.
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3080 Posts
Posted 06/17/2019   07:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You might also look at Siegel PowerSearch.



https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd....tFirst=First

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Germany
1212 Posts
Posted 06/17/2019   08:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
After reading some articles about this color and looking at many stamps online and offline, I still don't know:
- what qualifies a stamp as 64a
- whether this color really exists or is part of the 64 pink range

Many certified copies would perhaps not be certified again today, Ashbrook had another color in mind than many have today ("bluish cast" is not necessarily part of it, some 64 pink also have it), beside the color we also have to look at the printing/inking, for example below the left "3". But this also could be printing characteristics of pink stamps, so it is not really a proof either.

As we have some members here which do know more about this, I hope they answer as well. There are many threads about this color on SCF already, but some are older (and some only talk about color & monitors), and there have been some new aspects about this color the last years. So what is the opinion today by some expert/-izer, that would be interesting.
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United States
1481 Posts
Posted 06/19/2019   12:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
PF pictures are rather unreliable for color identification. For them and Siegel, contrast and lighting varies a lot and some images are copies of copies.

Simone, that doesn't look like a pigeon blood pink nor a pink to me. It looks like a typical rose color. We might hope for a rose pink.

XRF analysis would probably show differences between 64, 64a, 64b and 65. Readings would be compared against those identified as the various colors by experts now housed in expert reference collections.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 06/19/2019 12:32 am
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United States
975 Posts
Posted 06/22/2019   10:05 am  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Simone, very nice stamp--
I'm in total agreement with Stamperix here. Since they don't have his reference collection, they don't know what Ashbrook meant when he came up with the pigeon blood pink moniker, but at least Mike McClung wrote in The Chronicle that it could have been "pigeon blood ruby pink" after the pigeon blood ruby. So it's ruby pink, not blue.

Bluish pinks can also be lavender pinks, which over the years have been certified as pigeon blood. Carmine pinks have also been certified as pigeon blood. Both of these stamps are #64, and are rarer than #64 pink. All of this is documented in past issues of The Chronicle. So many, many different colors have been certified by a lot of different experts as pigeon blood-- that's where the mystery begins.

The stamp posted originally-- no way to know what it is on a monitor. Need to have it certified. That's the bottom line. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks on SCF-- and I'm not trying to insult our knowledgeable members here-- you can't see the true color on a monitor.

I have rose pinks that look like this one, I have salmon roses that look like this one. I also have a brilliant rose that looks like this one. I also don't think from this image, that it's pigeon blood, but I've been wrong a lot more than I've been right....

Hope this helps, Ray

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Germany
1212 Posts
Posted 06/22/2019   2:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Ray and thank you, you were one of the members I talked about above that know much about this topic. I think the question is - if we suppose that the color exists - which organization has which approach here (for example looking more at printing/inking, more at the bluish cast, more at the ruby red). So if the stamp above is sent to PF, PSE, PSAG, APEX, the result can be a different depending on which kind of pidgeon blood red they have in their reference collection. Did any of those organizations change their objects in the reference collection in the last years after research of McClung? We probably don't know and won't know. For difficult items, collectors usually choose the PF. Unfortunately the PF (as PSE or Siegel as well, of course) don't use a color management (which would not be too expensive), so we don't know at all the kind of 64a when looking at the PF database online. Perhaps somebody who knows the examples there could tell us if the PF has some guideline for certifying a 64a and if it's more the inking, more the color (and more the bluish or more the ruby) direction.
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