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134 Possible I Grill

 
 
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Posted 06/25/2019   10:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add martin53545 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I just received this triple set of 134's from a seller on eBay. I think they are I grills. Any comments? Is the picture clear enough? Any ideas on what the CV might be for figuring the cert cost?
Thanks,
Oh yeah, the left-most stamp looks centered but the others have perfs almost touching design.

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Posted 06/25/2019   11:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add craigk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would say H grill. Not easy to ID by the photo by my count is 11x14.
Also, I don't believe there a difference dollar wise between the two grills. IMO, given the centering, it is not worth a cert.
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Edited by craigk - 06/25/2019 11:46 pm
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Posted 06/25/2019   11:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philazilla to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would not bother getting a cert on these. The catalog value is $200 for the H grill and $375 for the I grill (in VF condition). All three of your stamps have perfs cutting into the design at the bottom. They would grade a 50 or below (not that you should grade these). SMQ puts a value of 65 or 80 on these stamps in a grade of 50. You do have three of them, so the value is something like $195 to $240, and probably less since the right two stamps have perfs cutting into the design on bottom and left. A cert costs $30. Certed stamps do sell for more (or at least sell more quickly), but I don't think it is worth it for these stamps, and certainly not just for "proof" they are an I grill since the value uplift is only about $45. (And they may not be I grills anyway.)
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Posted 06/25/2019   11:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philazilla to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would add that I don't see any doubt as to the identity of these stamps or their authenticity to warrant a cert. If you can sort out the grill, you have strip of 3 sound, poorly-centered 134s or 134As.
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Posted 06/26/2019   12:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would agree they are I grills, and I think maybe middle to late grill state.

I don't have a current catalog; figure catalog on this by using the pair price and adding a single if (still?) not priced as a strip of 3.

Certify these for confirmation or peace of mind. The actual value of these make them not worth certifying to me also. Don't forget the cost of registered mail both ways.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 06/26/2019 12:18 am
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Posted 06/26/2019   01:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
But try and find another strip of 3 with grills.
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Posted 06/26/2019   06:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice strip which would be nice in everybody's collection. I think it's a bit too large for an I grill and count also something like 11x14, but a photo with oblique light would help here. Also, it has more the look of an H grill with those weak points with small squares, which would make it an early state H grill. As far as I know the I grill is either complete or missing a lot of points, not this overall weak look. (I think this is horizontal grain paper so this does not help in defining H or I grill.)
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Posted 06/29/2019   2:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Since the first class rate was 3c, strips of the 1c like this do come along. However, so far not many have been documented for the I-grill, so if you think it is an I-grill, you should get a PF cert to settle the matter. They discount if the grade is not high or the stamps have problems.

Whatever you suspect, do not break the strip.

If you are able, please send us a closeup pic of one of these grills. Alternatively a closer look at the grill portion of the group would also help. I tried bringing it into Photoshop but cannot uprez it enough to get a clear view. I need to see the shape of the grill points - that close.
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Edited by essayk - 06/29/2019 2:19 pm
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Posted 07/01/2019   10:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add martin53545 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.
I performed the graphite smear and took another scan. It looks like 11 x 14 and an H grill. Can anyone see differently?
Thanks,
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Posted 07/01/2019   10:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I performed the graphite smear


I wish you hadn't done that.

If you had given us a blow up the size of your final image, I have no doubt we could have given you more info on your grill. Now the graphite obscures the shape of the points, adding a layer of guesswork to the identification of grill state. Now the top row in your pic looks like a row of highlighted half points. Are they, or did the graphite not cover the points evenly? And of course you can't undo it without risking making the situation more ambiguous with partial removal.
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Edited by essayk - 07/01/2019 10:51 pm
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Posted 07/01/2019   11:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not to interfere with the OP, but here is the back of a stamp that I identify as an 134 "I" grill with straight edge. Do you agree?
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Posted 07/02/2019   5:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Partime: What I see is a grill that is not evenly impressed. I count 13x15 (top row extends right) with lots of open spaces on right.

H grill.
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Posted 07/03/2019   9:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the comments. Always good information on this site.
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Posted 07/03/2019   10:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add martin53545 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Could I get one more try? I have enlarged the two left stamps (as seen from back) from my scan before graphite. Also re-scanned middle stamp after cleaning. I haven't figured how to take a smaller area scan with better resolution so this might not help.

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Posted 07/04/2019   4:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@martin53545
As I see it, the top row consists of horizontal dashes only. That makes it a row of "half points" which do occur among some of the Bank Note grills. That row would not be counted. In counting columns (left to right, etc) the side to side limits are pretty clear, and I count 11 points, noting that the points on the outside edges are not as pronounced as the others.

Where things get a bit tricky is in counting the number of rows. Counting from top to bottom, the count is very clear down to 12, but then the definition of the points becomes ambiguous. Certainly there are 13 rows, but I cannot be certain there is not a 14th row. If I had the stamp in hand I could angle it around to see if the movement of light and shadow cleared up the question, since I do not have clear definition of a 14th row, but I think I do for the 13th. If I could rule out 14, I would say it is an 11x13 grill, which makes it an I-grill.

Here is a strip of 3 1c with I-grill on cover:



A closer look at the stamps:



The stamp on the left end alone:



Both sides of an off cover single:

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