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Where Are All The Faulty Rarities?

 
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Pillar Of The Community

Germany
1251 Posts
Posted 07/08/2019   05:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stamperix to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

as I have looked a lot at the databases of the larger stamp stamps auctions houses, I began to wonder: where are all those stamps that are great rarities of stamp collecting (for example USA), but are really damaged or faulty? I understand that faulty stamps only have some percent of the CV and auctions houses would like to sell for a lot of money, but still: Are there really no damaged stamps at all among all US stamp rarities? Wouldn't Siegel sell a 1c Z grill missing a complete corner?

And I don't talk about a small crease or perforation tip missing :). I really mean faulty or damaged. From the probability calculation and the age of those stamps, not some, but many stamps with huge CV should exist very very faulty.

So in this thread I am, of course, interested in answers, but it could also be a great opportunity to show and list some of the poorest rarities :).
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United States
533 Posts
Posted 07/08/2019   08:31 am  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was very surprised that Siegel took this # 21 Position 99r2 and sold it for me last July. This stamp had many faults. It is listed on their census of rare stamps. SCV $17,500. They estimated only $300 - $400. It sold for $850.



This link shows it just below the block of nine with Position 99r2 they sold at The William Gross sale.

https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd....nwwin=pubo3a
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Edited by rlmstamps2012 - 07/08/2019 09:03 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6031 Posts
Posted 07/08/2019   08:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
They are in this sale, which has garnered a long thread here......

https://stampauctionnetwork.com/x/x0719.cfm
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Germany
1251 Posts
Posted 07/08/2019   09:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you rlmstamps, that's a good example of what I thought about. Of course, in many auctions there are stamps that are faulty, but most of them still have a good appearance (as for example a crease is not directly visible, or only a few perforation tips are missing). In the opposite I wonder about those stamps which are really damaged, like in your stamp in the bottom right corner. So thank you for showing it here, it's a nice example of this "category" and worth getting views from collectors. Thank you also, revcollector, I looked a bit around in the lots but didn't stamps that are really very damaged, maybe I need to search more there.
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United States
6031 Posts
Posted 07/08/2019   09:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I suppose it depends on what level of damage you are looking for. There are rarities which only come damaged, or mostly so.
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Germany
1251 Posts
Posted 07/08/2019   09:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, as said I look from time to time at all those stamps sold at auctions and nearly never I see a stamp where you notice directly: ok, that's really a damaged stamp. So I talk about stamps that normally would not be worth anything. As faults are something that can also happen to rare stamps, there should exist as much damaged rare stamps as damaged common stamps. Only, they are not found too often at auctions or anywhere else. That's why I asked that above. And the first stamp shown is a good example already - more damage would be ok :).
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Posted 07/08/2019   11:44 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They are in this sale, which has garnered a long thread here......

https://stampauctionnetwork.com/x/x0719.cfm


That link is a dead link for me. Looks like the auction has been removed.

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46 Posts
Posted 07/08/2019   11:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bankruptcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like the all of Stamp Auction Network is down. I tried http://www.stampauctionnetwork.com and get the same error.
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United States
541 Posts
Posted 07/08/2019   1:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jarnick to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
SAN is working now.
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Posted 07/08/2019   8:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add codehappy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's some places to find rarities with faults:

- Sitting in albums or stockbooks, sold as country collections, balance lots, or box lots.
- Sometimes found in "reference collections", along with reprints, fakes, and forgeries.
- With careful repairs, hiding in unscrupulous dealer lists, likely sold "as-is".
- On eBay, either described truthfully or described as incredibly rare.

Only the rarest of the rare space fillers really merits individual listing in a stamp auction or by a dealer. Something like a thin or clipped perfs destroys the great majority of even a rare stamp's value, unless it is ultra-rare and simply cannot be had.
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Posted 07/08/2019   8:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Loupy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hard working stamp repairmen have about eliminated the majority of faulty rarities over the years. Upon close examination under high powered glass, a bath in watermark solution, and UV light, many of those beauties will reveal their long hidden secrets.
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Germany
1251 Posts
Posted 07/09/2019   02:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you both. Indeed, the repairmen could be an important reason, did not think of them. Still, not all rare US stamps probably have been brought to them.

Just made another search on Siegel (their PowerSearch is very useful). You can find more than 1.500 lots with stamps that are used/on piece and sold for more than 10.000 USD. So quite many. Those are rarities, and I never saw anywhere a really damaged stamp of them to be sold at auction, although the price would still be worth it, even with 1-5% of CV. If we take a stamp for example with CV of 100.000 USD, 1% of CV would be 1.000 USD - a good candidate for an auction as a single lot. But it does not happen, and this is what I wonder about. It's not probable that all rarities only exist sound or with small faults. I agree, as said above, that the repairs could be one reason, but they do not explain why the damaged rarities are not living in the public at all :). I think more in the direction that it's a vicious circle as collectors don't see the damages stamps at auctions and then think it's not worth it and then no stamps appear at auctions. Another reason could be that the auctions houses just don't want to sell them.
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Edited by stamperix - 07/09/2019 02:27 am
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United States
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Posted 07/09/2019   06:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add m and m to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
the auction houses will sell whatever they can get, one way or another, but almost all have minimums for individual lots. there are exceptions of course, notably in the revenue fields. I think codehappy has it right and loupy also makes a good point.
many damaged items tend to get tossed or even go unrecognized as being rare and being rare in the first place + low survival rates also enter the equation.
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Posted 07/09/2019   06:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
While searching on Siegel PowerSearch for information related to this thread topic I ran across this description that made me laugh:

19th & 20th Century Collection. Album of used stamps, range of issues incl. Nos. 1 (2), 2, 12, 29, 100, 121-122, some Bank Notes to 90c, 300-313, condition something between spacefillers and " eBay Fine"
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Germany
1251 Posts
Posted 07/09/2019   07:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you again. Of course you are all correct and I think we found many reasons already why there are so few damaged rarities visible in the stamps market. But as said at the beginning, it would be just interesting to see some examples. The only good examples I know are not US stamps, so I didn't want to start with them. The China stamp is only a half of a stamp and sold for nearly 300.000 USD, and the 1c Magenta is known to everybody and it's also not sound.

As we are in an US forum and here in an US topic, I thought that some similar stamp would exist in the US market, but I am not sure about it. The US market is so large and there are so many great stamp rarities (early issues, grills, perforation varieties, inverts) that I would normally expect that there are rarities that sold in a very damaged state.


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Posted 07/09/2019   11:04 am  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I found another Siegel sale with a very interesting description.

I saw this last February and posted it in this thread. It is on page 6. February 14th post.
I saw that it is one of Don's wish list stamps.

http://goscf.com/t/54802&whichpage=1

United States
U.S. Stamps
Back-of-Book
Air Post
1197
2019-03-14
United States Stamps

5c Deep Blue, Buffalo Balloon (CL1). Schoendorf Type III with plate flaws including large white blob in "E" of "Five", unused (no gum), large margins except clipped bottom right corner, thin spots and creases, Extremely Vile, apparently dropped from the balloon and used by squirrels as nesting material, with 2018 P.F. certificate



They estimated it would sell at $7500. It sold for $1600.
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