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Wonderful Rare Scott 352 Pair With One Stamp Superb. Value?

 
 
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Posted 07/17/2019   2:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Mizar to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I've been avidly collecting stamps for a long time and am seeking your opinions. Here's the situation: I have a pair of Scott #352 (3mm spacing). I've checked the authenticity of the stamp 10x and it is definitely a pair of Scott #352's, replete with the proper vertical perforations at 12 and very visible double-line watermarks. The identity of the pair is not the problem. The problem is the pair's value.

The stamp on the left is what makes the pair so odd. It measures: Top 99, Bottom 100, Left 90, right 89, which is graded at Superb 99.

As an individual stamp, the Scott catalogue does not give a price for Superb, only XF-Superb. I have no plans to separate the two stamps, which I think would be patently wrong. So, my question is: What might the pair be valued at, if one of the stamps happens to be Superb? If it were yours, what value would you put on it? Even an educated guess would be welcome! Thanks, James.


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Edited by Mizar - 07/17/2019 2:31 pm

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Posted 07/17/2019   2:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 07/17/2019   2:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Richard Frajola to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The cancels are not of the period (ie, fake). You won't be happy with a cert even if it is a #352.
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Posted 07/17/2019   3:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mizar to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rog, yes, I agree about having it certified, however, assuming it to be an actually 352 pair, I'm looking for opinions as to what might be its value. Having it certified is upcoming.

Richard, yes, of course, that's a possibility; cancellations are certainly a factor. Right now, it's an enigma.

Thanks, James
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Edited by Mizar - 07/17/2019 3:07 pm
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Posted 07/17/2019   3:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Richard Frajola to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mizar - I did not say maybe it was a fake cancel. No enigma here. I said it was a fake - which to me means a cancel not of the period. I have been studying postal history as a professional since 1968 and as a collector since 1962. Now, having said that, maybe the PF or PSE will still give it a cert as genuine used.

Jack Molesworth used to sell (back in the 70s and 80s) such animals as "cancelled" not "used" as a euphemism for the ones that he canceled with the handstamp in his desk drawer for such purposes (his was actually more deceiving as it was a double oval Boston registry mark). He often converted unused no gum things into "canceled" rarities that were saleable.
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Edited by Richard Frajola - 07/17/2019 3:57 pm
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Posted 07/17/2019   4:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mizar to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Richard, thank you, your point is well-taken. The only other stamp I know that shares its characteristics is Scott 331, which, of course, is not a coil. That a trimmed pair of 331's lead to this '352' pair is more a probability, than a possibility. So, no doubt, you are probably right.

Still, I know that sundry odd-shaped, even blob-like "cork" cancels have been used, though albeit, rarely, even as late as the 1930's. Therefore, anything was possible in terms of a cancellation oddity like this decades before back in 1909. This is what makes the hobby interesting, right? If I decide to have it expertized, I'll let everyone know the results. Thanks again.
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Edited by Mizar - 07/17/2019 4:34 pm
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Posted 07/17/2019   4:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One of my favorite lines from U.S. cinema is from Cool Hand Luke, starring Paul Newman.

The Captain says to a fallen Luke who has just been brought back to the prison camp after an escape attempt, "What we've got here is a failure to communicate."
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Posted 07/17/2019   5:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mizar to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bob, I know the movie. That line was spoken by the actor Strother Martin.
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Edited by Mizar - 07/17/2019 5:07 pm
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Posted 07/17/2019   5:10 pm  Show Profile Check cfrphoto's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The only other stamp I know that shares its characteristics is Scott 331


Scott 344, the imperf one cent stamp, also has a double line watermark. Fake perforated coils were frequently made by adding fake perforations to imperforate coils.
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Edited by cfrphoto - 07/17/2019 5:45 pm
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Posted 07/17/2019   5:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mizar to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cfr, your point, also, is well-taken. That's another possibility. The degree of precision required in perf placement like this, I suppose, could result from extensive "forgery" experience. Approaching authenticity issues with a "let's wait and see" attitude is often necessary, but right now, everything is a possibility: real or imagined, genuine or just another bogus philately wonder. It's interesting, isn't it?
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Posted 07/17/2019   8:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Al E. Gator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Certification should probably preclude a discussion of value.
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Posted 07/17/2019   9:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rwoodennickel to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Still shaking the bush boss.
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Thanks,
Robert
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Posted 07/18/2019   06:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mizar to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It seems incredulous to me for a forger to use such well-mastered precision in altering a stamp in order match a particularly rare stamp and then, like an inanely witless amateur, be so careless about adding, according to some, such an "obviously" anachronistically bogus cancellation. It would be obviously self-defeating and, yes, plainly stupid. It is non sequitur and makes no sense to me. Just saying.
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Posted 07/18/2019   07:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gettinold to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 07/18/2019   07:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And of course this is a good reason for someone using this cancel as a fake. There are many fakes playing exactly with this logic. I would not think too much about the cancel here (has been explained above), but more about the perforation. Your stamps could be a nice example for talking about genuine or fake perforation (or straight edges). A high resolution scan (reduced only in image size before uploading) would help, as well as some example photos of perforation holes under magnification. Then you maybe get more opinions about the perforation (for a start, the straight edges don't look parallel).
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Posted 07/18/2019   07:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Assuming it is no good, there are two possibilities as far as the cancel is concerned. One is that the pair was used out of period and THEN turned into a fake, and the other is that it was turned into a fake and then the cancel was added to help try and obscure the fact that it is fake. This is not all that uncommon, the tendency for many collectors is if they find one thing wrong they stop looking for more (true for some dealers as well). As stated above, it needs a cert first of all.
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