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Imperforate Revenues First Issue: Good Scissors OR Real Deal Collection?

 
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 07/21/2019   7:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
blue proprietary stamp?


Hi

I would say almost certainly not.

Compare the ink color against the other three blue imperf. stamps.

As Bart has explained, the margins are only a part of determining genuineness. Ink color, cancel date, paper characteristics, etc. also are important.

Jim

Here's what the color of a genuine R13a looks like:

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Edited by James Drummond - 07/21/2019 7:20 pm
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Posted 07/21/2019   7:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Both one cent stamps would have to be looked at as well. The 2 cent proprietary is certainly trimmed.
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Posted 07/21/2019   8:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What I do see every so often are conflicting certs from the same body. I was looking at a large banknote issue today that had a clean 1994 PF cert and a 2019 PF cert as reperforated on the bottom.
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Posted 07/21/2019   8:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And, enter Revcollector...



Jim
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Posted 07/21/2019   8:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 07/21/2019   9:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. I did notice the color of the proprietary stamp as dull and quite different than others
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Posted 07/21/2019   9:52 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If a certificate-issuing entity is going to properly stand behind their official opinion, that someone has paid them good money to render, then they should (in my opinion) offer a free replacement certificate if the opinion changes at any point in the future.

I would consider this a guarantee, that you will always have an accurate certificate, good or bad.

Of course, if the opinion doesn't change, then the collector or dealer would have to pay for the new certificate.

That's it.

Whatever financial fallout that results from a change in the opinion on the certificate is between the buyer and seller.


That's a very different definition of what I suspected you meant by a guarantee and one that would place very little financial risk on the cert company.
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Posted 07/22/2019   07:21 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That's a very different definition of what I suspected you meant by a guarantee and one that would place very little financial risk on the cert company.


Agreed. That's not what I thought Jim meant either.

P.S. On the 2c proprietary being discussed above, you don't even have to look at the margins. The color is all wrong. That milky blue shade is a late-printing color.

One a related note, novice revenue collectors frequently mistake the milky blue shade of R13 for the ultramarine (R13e) and offer it as such. R13 is found in the same 3 Scott-listed color shades as R98, the difference being that in the former, the ultramarine carries a huge value premium over the other 2 shades, with regular blue and milky blue being worth the same nominal amount, and with R98 the ultramarine and milky blue both having slight premiums over the regular blue.
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Posted 07/23/2019   08:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add m and m to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
reference has been made to paper quality and variety several pages back. the American Revenue Association website has the Butler & Carpenter records up. these mention the difficulty of getting both suitable paper and gum consistently over the life of their contract.
on the question of guarantee and financial risk to any certifying group or individual, if they were libel for that responsibility, bye bye individuals and expert groups willing to do the work. remember standards change over time, as does the means of determining outcome. certificates are opinions based on experience and knowledge.
people who are willing to spend large amounts of money for items should avail themselves of available information in those areas and should use certificates as just another tool in the process. it is a hobby, not a life and death issue.
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Posted 07/23/2019   1:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
is there a specific date when Butler and carpenter switched from imperforate to perforated first issues?
Or to put it another way, if there is an early cancellation, (lets say from 1863), would that guarantee imperforate is genuine?

or did they release imperforates, part perf and perforated versions all from the beginning ( I think late 1862)?
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Posted 07/23/2019   3:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The date alone will not prove anything. They released them simultaneously, but the imperfs and part perfs were only issued for a few months in 1863 for the most part. There is no exact time period known; this is also complicated by the fact that in San Francisco and other parts of California imperfs and part perfs were used right up to 1871. It is not known whether there was not enough need to use up all the imperf and part perf examples shipped there or whether perhaps there might have been a robbery and later recovery of those stamps, which were then used. There are a significant number of stamps and documents including multiples that were used there.
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Posted 07/24/2019   08:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add m and m to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
B & C underestimated both the time required and number of perforators they would need. compounding the problem was the need to change settings for the different sizes of the first issue. the urgent government need for revenue and the volume of stamps needed led to the release of partly finished and imperforate items.
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