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Buying Stamps On Extension?

 
 
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Posted 07/21/2019   09:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add canyoneer to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I am looking at buying a fairly expensive stamp from a person who deals in higher end stamps. I have done the basic, carefully look it over with magnification/dip it but feel I still would need it certified to be sure (not graded, just authenticated for soundness/any repairs). I've heard of "buying on extension". What exactly does that entail? Should the dealer provide a written statement that the stamp is fault free or should I simply rely on his word that I can return it if there are problems? I haven't ever bought a higher end stamp - this is a stamp I've been wanting for decades and now I think I can swing a present to myself. Thanks for any advice that may be offered.
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Posted 07/21/2019   09:31 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Important: Get confirmation in advance, preferably in writing, as to who pays the cert fee in the event of (1) a negative opinion, or (2) a declined opinion. Most reputable dealers will pay the expertizing costs in the case of #1 but not always #2.

Also, get agreement in advance as to the parameters of the expertizing: Is it for a specific grade, fault free, faults as stated, or authenticity only. Depening on the item, any one of these scenarios could be possible.

Some dealers will want to handle the extension themselves and others will want you to handle it. Most auction houses send material in for expertizing themselves before releasing possession of the item(s).
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Posted 07/21/2019   09:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philazilla to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A reputable dealer will do this every time. . .just tell then you want to get a cert and ask if they will accept the return (and the cost of the cert) should the stamp be unsound or misidentified. You do not need a "contract." Another option is to ask them to get a cert for you and that you'll buy it (and pay for the cert) if it is genuine/sound. Most dealers would opt for you to take care of the cert. What dealer and what stamp? Depending on the stamp, you should not buy one without a cert up front.
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Posted 07/21/2019   10:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add funcitypapa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Revenue collector gives some very solid advice. It depends on the value of the item you are trying to buy and who the dealer is. As an example only, if you are dealing with someone like Rupp Bros, you should have no concerns about the transaction regardless as to what parameters since they are totally reliable and honest in my opinion.

If buying a stamps such as an unused well centered Scott 292, 293 or 313, you might ask yourself why it does not have a cert already whereas I would not immediately assume that lower values of these two series would already be certified.

What stamp are you trying to buy for yourself? Condition?
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Edited by funcitypapa - 07/21/2019 11:31 am
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Posted 07/21/2019   10:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add canyoneer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is a US 122 used - I'd say F-VF centering, great color, lighter cancel, clean and bright back. Not super high end centering for this stamp but a good looker to me. Close to the upper end of my budget. Newport Harbor Stamp Company - he has some beautiful stuff!
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Posted 07/21/2019   11:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add funcitypapa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don't know the dealer. The 90 cent pictorial is indeed a beautiful stamp but as you describe it I can understand why it might not have a cert upfront. Would follow revenuecollectors advice and you should be ok.

Congratulations!
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Posted 07/21/2019   11:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add funcitypapa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Canyoneer: just out of curiosity, I went on line to see what this company is offering. It is an unusual website. He shows an image of himself and presumably his significant other, an image of Scott 39, Scott 67 or 75, and 292 but no images of actual stamps for sale. No matter what you press it keeps coming back to the same "call us" page. Also, for a business that is stated to be around for 30 yrs no address or phone number is shown.

These are just my impressions; it should have no bearing on buying the stamp if you think a good deal.
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Posted 07/21/2019   12:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philazilla to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dave Cobb at Newport Harbor is well-known and honest.
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Posted 07/21/2019   1:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add canyoneer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the input everyone. I did check his website and I agree it is very generic. I saw the actual stamp at a show he was at recently and talked with him. My impression is that he isn't too interested in selling things online - mostly at shows and in person. I've dealt with another dealer who is much the same way - Ventura Stamps in NJ. Ventura has some beautiful material that comes out quarterly on net price lists - again another dealer that doesn't have much web presence but has been very honest and easy to deal with. Perhaps some would describe this selling method as "old school" but still seems to work.
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Posted 07/21/2019   2:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add funcitypapa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with your assessment of Alan Katz of Ventura stamp; very easy to deal with and honest and displays many very high quality stamps in his mailed bulletins. Ventura was or may still be part of University Stamp Co.
I must not have bought enough from him over the years as the bulletins have stopped but as is often the case you remember what you have purchased ; in this case two 70c's one used and one unused.

The 70c unused /NG came with a clean PSE cert but clearly has a slightly short perf in the left upper corner. This says nothing about Katz since the stamp was clearly illustrated in his bulletin but does say something about the vagaries of what is or is not called on a cert. since Bill Weiss has been mentioned on other threads on this forum, there is no way this would not have been called by him. Katz did not have to say anything as the stamp defined itself. If graded it would probably be 75 or 80. I paid about 2750 for it if that gives you an idea of his pricing.

The 70c used was a spectacularly well centered stamp with a SON cancel July 1862 from Smithville,MS. It had originally been certed by the PF as a single on cover to either England or France. Although listed as 70c the color was listed as red violet. When the stamp was offered to me by Katz, it was a single off cover and with a new PSE cert as a single, 70c, violet. If graded I would expect 85-90, probably the latter. I paid about 2K.

I think dealers of today, not participating in mailers like Katz, on line presence and emailed bulletins like Rupp , and depending primarily on walkup business at shows as you describe Cobb, are leaving a segment of their potential market untapped.
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Edited by funcitypapa - 07/21/2019 5:02 pm
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Posted 07/21/2019   9:26 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dave Cobb is strictly a show dealer with some nice high end stuff. Not Low priced, but you should have no trouble getting hom to agree to an extension (I suspect he would want to use PSE since they used to be very close to him).
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Posted 07/21/2019   9:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are several used 122's coming up starting Tuesday on Stamp Auction Network at Siegel and in August at Kelleher. All with certs. Take a look.
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Posted 07/21/2019   10:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add shermae to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
David Cobb also has a bio on the ASDA website. My guess is that since he is mainly a traditional show dealer, he likely doesn't have a ton of interest in loading transient material onto his website.

One of my favorite dealers, Toga Associates in Fairfield CT, has AT BEST a perfunctory web site but is a significant dealer in British Commonwealth. A few years ago he even had a few listings (less than 20) and his show schedule. Both are gone from his site.
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Posted 07/22/2019   11:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chipg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No reputable dealer will mind your purchasing a stamp on extension. Easiest thing for you to do as a buyer is tell them that you will pay an agreed upon price + the cost of the cert if it comes back as described. Alternatively, you can agree that you will buy it and submit it and that you will be able to return it for a full refund (including the cost of the cert) if it comes back with a problem.

I have bought things from the most reputable places and had them come back with bad certs (fortunately rarely). Things can be missed without the technology and experience to pick them out. Dealers and collectors should both realize this and be willing to have something offered for sale looked at by a third party.

C.
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Posted 07/22/2019   4:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add canyoneer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Funcitypapa, I contacted Allan Katz about the net sale lists and he replied that he's had to deal with family matters but plans to eventually get back to it later this year.

I ended up purchasing the stamp on extension and sent it in to the PF today. I've got my fingers crossed. I was reading a 1977 article by Jon Rose called "Cancellations of the 90c 1869" and it mentions an auction sale of the FW Pickard Collection in 1940 which had a lot of 207 used copies of the 122 ... of those, only 35 were NOT reperforated. Not a comforting statistic!
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