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Experiments With Elmer's Craft Bond

 
 
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Posted 08/11/2019   08:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add angore to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I had read that someone had Elmer's Craft Bond repositionable glue stick to attach mounts to pages so decided to do some basic tests.

Note: Although it is listed as acid free/photo safe, no one knows for sure and long term aspects are not known.

The primary attraction for me was the need to apply moisture to mounts and sometimes the need to remove them without damaging the page. I mostly use Steiner pages so printing again is not an issue but then you have to remount all stamps on new page. I always use mounts and would not apply to stamps.

For experiment, I put a dab on the back of mounts and applied to some p;inted pages as well as a test page. As advertised, the mounts can be repositioned for some time. The adhesive reminds me of the adhesive used on 3M Post It notes. I let some age on a page for several days and when removed, they popped off easily. The adhesive was still slightly tacky. It will transfer to your fingers if you touch it so this could be a concern when handling stamps.

The test was repeated a week later with same results. The mounts still were slightly tacky but would not stick as before so reuse is limited. It did not look like much of the adhesive transferred to the paper based upon sight and touch - not scientific.

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Al
Edited by angore - 08/11/2019 08:20 am

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Posted 08/11/2019   08:56 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Al,
Thanks for reporting your results, please keep this thread updated over time on how things progress.
Don
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Posted 08/11/2019   10:44 am  Show Profile Check docgfd's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add docgfd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Al - What's the viscosity like? Is the thickness of the adhesive likely to be an issue?
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Posted 08/11/2019   12:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
docgfd,

Another analogy is it is like Chapstick but not oily. It is a soft solid.
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Al
Edited by angore - 08/11/2019 12:09 pm
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Posted 08/11/2019   3:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ikeyPikey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
... It did not look like much of the adhesive transferred to the paper based upon sight and touch - not scientific ...


Easily tested with asbestos-free baby powder, Mrs Angore's rouge ... or, for extra credit, you could help save Kraft-Heinz by testing with straight-from-the-box Jell-O or Kool-Aid.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
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Posted 08/11/2019   7:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the test,
I'd suggest we would be looking at results over 10 years, why? early stamp packs sold at Woolworths in the 1960's 1970's used a similar adhesive type attachment to keep stamps in design within the cellophane packet.

My experience there is now a brown dot on the stamps, ruining them.
(Noted you are using mounts though) but will possibly mark the page.

I use "Postmaster GS's route of acid free double sided tape, (possibly the same scenario) but once attached to Steiner pages, they do not come off easily after a few days.

As an aside, the advance on double sided tape is extraordinary.
I am currently using a half inch tab of double sided tape, to hang a large Bathroom wall tile, on the face of another, to mark the floor cut tiles,
The grip is amazing, one has to prise the tile off with great strength.


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Edited by rod222 - 08/11/2019 8:02 pm
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Posted 08/12/2019   08:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I added some more mounts to my test page and now is in the attic. It will be getting toasty for a few months more.
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Al
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Posted 10/19/2019   06:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My experiment has prematurely ended. I had put a sample of my album page with mounts applied in the attic space of the house. It had fallen on floor and was mistaken as trash. The attic has seen many 90 F+ humid summer days.

I did get a chance to analyze it. The album sheet had developed a large curl. The mounts that were still on it popped off easily with NO signs of adhesive by sight or feel. Since I did not see it as originally mounted I am not sure if the curl cause mounts to detach.
The mounts did not look pristine either.

I plan to repeat and add some new variables next time. I will add a page protector version.
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Al
Edited by angore - 10/19/2019 06:23 am
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Posted 10/19/2019   07:19 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Al,
Thank you again for your efforts. I think the Library of Congress accelerated testing specs are currently 80C/65% RH, 90C/50% RH and 90C/65% RH and durations of <30 days. Obviously you will not be able to replicate this but your idea of using your eastern NC attic is outstanding. If possible it would be great if you could include a cheap temp/RH monitor in the attic and let it log this info over time.

I assume that ikey was joking but just in case, no one should use Jell-O or Kool-Aid since the sugars would quickly attract silverfish (who would not only eat the Jell-O or Kool-Aid but also any paper it is sitting on). 'Archival' is more than just temp/RH variables, it includes 'critter control' too.
Don
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Posted 10/22/2019   03:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DrewM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To be an effective experiment, you also need controls. That means doing the experiment with different variables and not just one. If all the pages curl up and the mounts fall off, you don't know if the same thing would have happened to mounts applied the normal way, stamps mounted with hinges, or other methods. Maybe the conditions in your attic, as hot as it gets there, were so severe that any method of mounting stamps would fail? That's the reason for doing controls.

I suggest mounting stamps with hinges, mounts applied with moisture, mounts applied with double-sided tape, and your method of using glue sticks. That's the only way you'll ever know how good (or bad) glue sticks are compared to other methods. It would also be useful to try the same experiment in a more normal environment, meaning not in a hot attic but a room at regular temperature which is, after all, where most of us store our stamps. Otherwise, most people will dismiss your tests as too extreme and blame the excessive heat for any failures of the adhesive even thought the heat may not have been the cause at all.

To simulate stamps on album pages baking in a very warm environment, you do not have to wait until summer. Or even use your attic. It's perfectly possible to put your experiment pages in a room with a space heater set on moderate heat to keep the room at a warm temperature 24 hours a day. Your electric bill may cost a few dollars more, but it will work just fine.

Finally, humidity plays a role in whether stamp mounts work or not, so you'd really need to try the same experiment in a more humid and less humid environment. If you don't, you'll never know if the real reason for the failure of the glue is that the humidity is too high -- or too low.
Adding a humidifier to a room with your experiment pages would raise the humidity enough to be worth testing. Or just leave a pan of water in there and refill every day or two. A room filled with plants is also likely to be humid. A cheap humidity measuring gauge (hygrometer?) in that room would be most scientific or else how do you really know it's a high humidity environment?

I know this sounds like a lot of effort to go to, but no one is going to take your results very seriously is you just put pages using one kind of adhesive in one kind of environment and then announce it works or doesn't work. Dismissing the results of testing is a national obsession these days -- to drink coffee and eat red meat or not?

I did the same testing about 25 different brands of stamp hinges, leaving them in a normal environment, a warm environment, and so on. Findings? All stamp hinges hold very well ,but nearly all hinges are lousy at being removed except one or two brands which everyone recognizes. Those are Dennison and Fold-O. Also I discovered that applying hinges with less moisture makes hinges more removable. And cutting hinges in half helps, as well, since that reduces the amount of moisture being used and creates less adhesive contact area. Even half-hinges still hold well and remove easily.

Doing the same with mounts and different adhesives in different environments would be at least as interesting as my much simpler experiment. This is exactly the sort of thing serious stamp publications ought to be doing for the benefit of collectors. The reason I suspect they don't do it is they don't want to lose advertisers when they announce that certain adhesives and mounts/hinges work worse than others. But then I'm a cynic. A scientific cynic, though.
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Edited by DrewM - 10/22/2019 04:00 am
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Posted 10/22/2019   07:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rmatossian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, and to piggyback on Drew's description of experimental design:

Each sample should be identically prepared and then randomly assigned to each condition. And then you might want to have the actual inspection of the samples done by someone who doesn't know under which of the various conditions each sample was subjected. These tactics may sound unnecessary, but they help to minimize the effects of extraneous variables and to mitigate experimenter bias, thereby making your conclusions about causation to be on a stronger footing.

Let us know...
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