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Uc8 Stamping Question

 
 
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Posted 08/21/2019   10:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add thk25 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have a question about how UC8 envelopes were stamped when provided to the Armed Forces overseas.

Below is the announcement in the March 27, 1945 Postal Bulletin that announces the furnishing of "two cent envelopes overprinted with the words '6c Air Mail,' in order to supplement the present factory output of 6c embossed air mail stamped envelopes." My reading of that is that the envelopes, when provided to the Armed Forces, were already stamped "6c Air Mail". I own several original examples of un-postmarked UC8 envelopes that are stamped that way.


However, I recently purchased two covers that appear to have been stamped "6c Air Mail" AFTER the soldier mailed the letter and it was postmarked by the U.S. Army Postal Service. In both cases, the circular U.S. ARMY POSTAL SERVICE postmark appears beneath the "6c Air Mail" stamp which leads me to believe that these envelopes, when provided to the soldiers who sent the letters, were only marked with the 2c stamp and the "6c Air Mail" stamp was applied by the U.S. Army Postal Service before it left the European Theater of Operations, or by the U.S. Postal Service when it arrived in the United States. Which also makes me think this is the case is that one of the letters has an extra 6c adhesive stamp applied to it. Perhaps that soldier was not told that the letters would be given air mail stamps later, or wanted to make sure his letter wasn't lost or the recipient responsible for "postage due" fees.



Please let me know your thoughts. I am very new to this area of collecting, so I apologize if this has been asked and answered somewhere else. Thank you.


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Posted 08/21/2019   10:07 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


Quote:
...appear to have been stamped...


Hi,
It notoriously tricky to determine this.
Don
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Posted 08/21/2019   10:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Despite what you think you see, the boxed overprint was applied first (before sale) and the postal cancel was applied last.
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Posted 08/21/2019   2:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John

I have a hard time understanding how the box overprint was applied first, then the postal stamp applied last.

By what I see it the postal code applied first and box overprint applied second..Maybe trying to create a forgery..?

Look at the word AIR on the box overprint..It is hiding the postal cancel "17" and "1945"..Just saying..I could be completely wrong, but sure looks like it.


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Posted 08/21/2019   2:50 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robert,
The image you show is a color histogram, the image does not have any Z axis (height) data in it. Color histograms assigns 'height' to the level of black so the darker pixels appear higher.
Don
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Posted 08/21/2019   2:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When a magic marker is used on a piece of paper or a stamp used, the pressure of what is used pushes ink to the outer surface of the device and leaves a stronger/darker impression...That is what I am seeing Don

Robert
Axis is shown..

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Edited by wert - 08/21/2019 3:05 pm
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Posted 08/21/2019   3:21 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In terms of application pressure, I agree that more force often means a darker color but darker does not help in determining which was applied first. The lighter gray color of the cancel is not made up of white and black ink, it is simply less black ink.
Don
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Posted 08/21/2019   3:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Guess I am wrong again Don

Robert
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Posted 08/21/2019   3:37 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As mentioned before, determining the 'layer' of a cancel can be incredibly deceiving. Using the original image as an example, look at this...

On the left, it clearly appears that the cancel is below the overprint. yet the image on the right clearly shows the cancel above the overprint.

Same cover, same image yet we have two totally opposite appearances.

Occam's razor - all other things being equal, the simplest explanation is the way to bet.
Don
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Posted 08/21/2019   3:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robert,

From the United Postal Stationery Catalog, 1990 edition: "... The surcharging was principally done in a warehouse in New York although some were also surcharged at the Fleet Post Office at Honolulu, Hawaii. Those surcharged at Honolulu were shipped directly to forward areas. Those surcharged in New York were turned over to the Army and Fleet overseas Post Offices. ... There are ten varieties of this surcharge which were done with slugs being inserted in cancelling machines."

Robert, if you really think the revalue was done afterwards, explain the logistics of its use when purchased by many thousands of servicemen at hundreds of APOS all over the world. Would they have brought their 2 cent envelope in and paid another 4 cents when they mailed it to have it uprated? Not a chance of it working that way.

I agree with Don, you are misapplying your various analytical tools. Intensity/darkness does not imply a layering sequence - especially derived from a 2-D oblique photo rather than an item in-hand.

The original envelopes appear normal in every way and used as intended.
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Posted 08/29/2019   10:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jobi01 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The only recognized way to determine which came first is examination under electron microscope. Unless you have connections this is very pricey and way exceeds the value of your covers. Regardless, the boxed 6-cent surcharge was applied before the envelopes were delivered to the field post offices. Any cover implying otherwise is either bogus or mistakenly identified. If in doubt, please send off for a certificate of genuine use from any of the philatelic expertising services.

US postal stationery examiner for APEX; member of all UPSS envelope catalog editorial committees
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Bill Lehr
US Postal Stationery Specialist
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