Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Is This A Candidate 28A Or B?

Previous Page | Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 58 / Views: 3,176Next Topic
Page: of 4
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
4765 Posts
Posted 10/02/2019   5:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not to mention that a PF cert in a Siegel auction will bring the lot more money than a European cert that bidders are cautious about.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Germany
50 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   6:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamphunter1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi folks
I have updates for the stamp in question. The stamp was given on consignement to Harmer Auction N.Y. and then certified trough the P.S.E. in Henderson.
I got a "preassesment" of the stamp from P.S.E from Scott in February from this year (I sent him scans of the stamp). He was almost certain that the stamp is unused. Because the colors are to bright and the overall stamp condition were to fresh to be a used stamp. He mentioned that it's likely a scott 28b
Also Charles from Harmer Auction that has the stamp in original agreed with this. His doubts were that it could be the normal variant simply scott 28, beside of the other two variants 28 a (indian red) and 28b (bright red brown).
Now it comes. I took 5-6 weeks to conclude from the p.s.e that the stamp is used. And scott 28 (neither nor 28a or b).
cert number is 01380601.
Charles and I were very surprised abouth the decision that the stamp should be used. If the stamp is a 28 or 28b doesn't made big difference when unused (both are very rare not to mention the 28a)
Here's the explanation from Scott sent to me trough email:
There are traces of black cancel ink in the hair and on the jaw visible at 20x magnification that compare to cancel ink used in the 1860s. Some of the perf tips also show traces consistent with usage.

For me it's a big ?...of course they can be right but some contradicts are there especially that the stamp has the gum on it.
for me the stamp can only be used when
the stamp was manipulated from someone and the ink was nearly removed complete from the stamp (with bleach for example) that only small residuals of them are visible. And the stamp was regummed (p.s.e didnt' mention anything abouth the gum). That the stamp has such a sligth cancel that you wouldn't find with looking at it for me doesn't make sense. What you think?





Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by stamphunter1 - 08/14/2020 7:06 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
4765 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   7:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It has cancel ink traces. It is used. A used stamp can have gum on it from being soaked off and dried. It could also be residue from mounting the stamp. So if I understand you correctly you purchased this stamp as an unused 42 from someplace and it turned out to be a used 28? A good object lesson in why you should purchase these with a certificate unless you really, really know what you are doing and have examined the stamp. Of course if you are buying it cheaply hoping to get a bargain you will forego the cert because you might score the "big one".
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6939 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   8:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If you put it under a UV, then the cancel should show up.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Germany
50 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   9:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamphunter1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A good object lesson in why you should purchase these with a certificate unless you really, really know what you are doing and have examined the stamp.


I didn't loose big money on this stamp. It was the big effort that I made. Searching a good auctionhouse. Get in contact with them.
the starting price was already sheduled conservatively at USD 5000 by harmer auction.
Waiting half a year for the result still the stamp was shipped from harmer to p.s.e and certified. I'm not a newby on stamps.
Keep apart used stamps to unused on such old stamps is not always so easy. This stamp looked unused also when looking longer at it (not only at first glance).
This stamp I buyed on philasearch.com withouth seeing it in person.
But if there is a visible cancel under magnification there is no way that scott and other experts in the comitee from p.s.e could certify this stamp as unused. I agree with that. I learned my lesson that I will send future US stamps directly for certification and only if there's something valuable involve auctionhouses. There's no fault neither Harmer nor p.s.e. I'am just disappointed with the result from certification that gave me this stamp.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by stamphunter1 - 08/14/2020 9:33 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
4765 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   9:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nobody that I know would spend $5000 plus BP at Harmer's or just about anywhere else on a stamp without a cert in hand. Yes, you can place it on extension but it is a pain and you have to ask yourself why it would not already have a cert given its value and the potential higher sales price realized with a cert. No?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Germany
50 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   9:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamphunter1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Nobody that I know would spend $5000 plus BP at Harmer's or just about anywhere else on a stamp without a cert in hand. Yes, you can place it on extension but it is a pain and you have to ask yourself why it would not already have a cert given its value and the potential higher sales price realized with a cert. No?


That's clear no one would buy a stamp for 5000 USD plus buyers premium withouth certificate for the stamp. Ok there are always exceptions.
You must read more carefully what I wrote. The stamp was given from me to Harmer on consignement. Because they were interested. And we already made a starting price for the future auction because it was almost certain that the stamp would be unused. that was 5k provided the stamp becomes as unused from the p.s.e. what did not happen. No extension. The stamp would have the certificate for the auction.
Hey just went stupid can happen. Nobodys fault. a lot of effort for nothing.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by stamphunter1 - 08/14/2020 9:51 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
4765 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   10:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ah, now I understand. Who paid for the cert?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
68 Posts
Posted 08/15/2020   11:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Chevelle to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stamphunter1, you have educated and re-educated some of us as to the twists and turns involving our early and more expensive stamps.

Despite your disappointment with the final results surrounding your stamp you were still good enough to share those results with us. Thank you.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
107 Posts
Posted 08/15/2020   11:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stamphunter1 - I'm curious to know more about how you selected an auction house and expertizer. It seems to me that nearly everyone who responded to your initial post thought that this stamp was potentially a very rare classic stamp, and that, 1) Siegel is widely recognized as the leading auction house in the US for this kind of material, and 2) the PF, because of its extensive reference collection, is particularly well equipped to expertize this stamp. You seem to hint at some distrust and wondered if Siegel and the PF might be working together. I don't think you'll find many experienced collectors in this country who share your apparent distrust. In my experience the integrity of both has never been in question.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Germany
50 Posts
Posted 08/15/2020   5:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamphunter1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
stamphunter1 - I'm curious to know more about how you selected an auction house and expertizer. It seems to me that nearly everyone who responded to your initial post thought that this stamp was potentially a very rare classic stamp, and that, 1) Siegel is widely recognized as the leading auction house in the US for this kind of material, and 2) the PF, because of its extensive reference collection, is particularly well equipped to expertize this stamp. You seem to hint at some distrust and wondered if Siegel and the PF might be working together. I don't think you'll find many experienced collectors in this country who share your apparent distrust. In my experience the integrity of both has never been in question.

What you whant to say that's my fault that they certified it used? That's what you are likely to say. I don't get it. PF and P.S.E are impartial and don't give a dam what I and the auctionhouse have agreed.Did you know how difficult it is to find an auctionhouse that propose overcontinental insurance for shippment withouth that the stamp is already certified? That was the point because I choose Harmerauction. Because they proposed me insurance against theft and lost.Because Charles and the experts from harmer were confident that it would certify as unused and foremost Scott from p.s.e (s. also preassesment below of the stamp sent to my email in february 2020 from Scott p.s.e.) Every sane person would take into consideration insurance for this (with 20-50k scott value). Now with this certificate it's maybe worth a few hundreds. Siegel didn't offer me this so I choose Harmer just as simpel.
(if I had known last winter that in the USA imported stamps didn't have custom duties I would have been the first person to boarding a plane and hand it over personally to the PF or p.s.e..and after the certification was done and the stamp would be unused to place it on the account from Harmer or Siegel to pick up.

What should my behaviour exactly affect the stamp if it will be certified used or unused?
First I said to Charles that it would be logical to give the stamp to the p.s.e because Scott already gave a positive feedback. The philatelic foundation have not respondet me clearly if it's worth to certify the stamp last winter when I requested via email abouth the stamp in question. Scott from p.s.e did and very quick. But I said to Charles that he could also give the stamp to the PF for certification. But they were busy because of the Corona issue so he has sent it to the p.s.e.


Quote:
You seem to hint at some distrust and wondered if Siegel and the PF might be working together. I don't think you'll find many experienced collectors in this country who share your apparent distrust. In my experience the integrity of both has never been in question.

You don't get it I never ever have distrust against Siegel and PF. THEY DON'T WORK TOGETHER...don't have to turn my words around (I never said that)...and actually what would be wrong if they work together and I give the stamp on consignement to Siegel and then they certify it by the PF..?I would only win as a client. Why should I have disadvantages if they would work together and one hand washes the other? I doesn't make sense what you are saying.
It was the insured shippment (from the insurance of the auctionhouse of harmer) because I choose Harmer instead of Siegel.

Hello Simon


I have reviewed the images you sent and I am fairly certain it is likely unused and it is likely a 28b. Color and usage are extremely difficult to be sure of from images, but the stamp looks fairly fresh (meaning a good chance it is unused) and the color is vibrant. I can't be 100% positive on the shade until I examine the stamp, but it appears to be 28b to me.



I hope you will consider sending the stamp to PSE for a certificate in the near future.



Best Regards,

Scott



Scott Murphy, USN Ret.

President, Professional Stamp Experts, Inc.

(702) 776-6522
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by stamphunter1 - 08/15/2020 6:57 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
4765 Posts
Posted 08/15/2020   6:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I cannot understand rendering any kind of even half-hearted opinion on a stamp that is not in hand.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Germany
50 Posts
Posted 08/15/2020   6:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamphunter1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
the cancel that mentioned scott is imho visible at the chin.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by stamphunter1 - 08/15/2020 7:19 pm
Valued Member
Germany
50 Posts
Posted 08/15/2020   7:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamphunter1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
stamphunter1, you have educated and re-educated some of us as to the twists and turns involving our early and more expensive stamps.

Despite your disappointment with the final results surrounding your stamp you were still good enough to share those results with us. Thank you.


Thanks I really appreciate it.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
107 Posts
Posted 08/16/2020   10:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stamphunter1 - Thanks for giving us the rest of the story on how you made the decisions you did. I do apologize if I made you feel like you were being interrogated. I was simply surprised that you took a different direction than most people suggested on the forum, and I wanted to hear your story because we all learn from each other's experiences. Good luck with your stamp.

For all forum readers - One thing that stamphunter1's experience brought to mind is this practice of getting a "pre-assessment". I don't understand how an expertizer can render an unbiased final opinion on a stamp when they have previously spoken with the submitter, and offered a preliminary opinion. Aren't examiners supposed to be completely unaware of who submitted the stamp they are certifying? Is this just a fairy tale?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 4 Previous TopicReplies: 58 / Views: 3,176Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2020 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.28 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05