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Do Stamps With Writing On Gum Still Qualify As Mint Never Hinged MNH Or ** ?

 
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Valued Member
Australia
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Posted 10/08/2019   06:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Gumtree55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have found a few related topics but nothing quite specific to my query. I recently purchased a lot of stamps from a dealer in Europe through Delcampe. The stamps I purchased were marked as ** It turns out that 1/2 the order arrived with writing on the gum side. I am in disagreement with the seller on this. There was a note on most of these in question in French that I could not read saying (ref. Michel au dos) - which as it turns out means Ref. Michel on he back. Not reading French I had just gone with the universally understood symbol of ** which up until today had never surpassed me with gum side issues.
I told the seller that my understanding of ** is that the gum is unmarked in any way.
I sell a few stamps on eBay myself and would never sell a stamp with writing on the gum as MNH.
Would anyone care to comment on this? Thank you in advance.
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Posted 10/08/2019   07:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
They are considered as mint never hinged, a hinge having never been applied. Markings are a different animal for the purpose of the definition.

MNH is very literal description because you may have gum skips for instance (should still be described by seller) and it is still MNH.
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Posted 10/08/2019   09:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think the question here has to do with the definition of "mint" rather than of "NH". In my view "mint" means "as issued by the post office," and since the post office obviously didn't issue these stamps with writing on the back I would not call them "mint," but rather "OG NH." But this isn't the normal practice--most sellers use "mint" to mean simply "unused."
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Posted 10/08/2019   09:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I do believe it should have been mentioned by the seller

Peter
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Posted 10/08/2019   10:02 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have given up on trying to define nomenclature in this hobby. People misuse words and some refuse to even consider trying to communicate better. In my opinion nomenclature is important when talking to online hobbyists across the world. Additionally there are those who intentionally misuse words in listings in an attempt to add marketing puffery. It is little wonder why less experienced hobbyists or those who are trying to learn the hobby in another language get confused and frustrated.
Don
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Posted 10/08/2019   10:18 am  Show Profile Check docgfd's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add docgfd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These should have had 'pob' (pencil on back) as part of their descriptions. I personally would have passed on these for those of my collections that are limited to mnh stamps were I to have known.
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Posted 10/08/2019   10:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mint never hinged implies that stamps are "post office fresh" as issued.

Anything that compromises this condition (pencil marks, fingerprints, mold, crackly gum, whatever) should always be mentioned by the seller.
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Posted 10/08/2019   10:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Anybody who orders/buys MNH stamps sight unseen is just asking for trouble. I would not do it unless the dealer had 'no questions asked' refunds.
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Posted 10/08/2019   12:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have had similar experience. Stamp was described as MNH but had writing on reverse. The seller, outside of the US was genuinely quite surprised about my dislike for the markings. Some areas/buyers seem not to mind the notations. I was able to return the item.

Can you make the refund happen through PayPal or credit card?

Tried to make a return on Delcampe one time on my very first purchase. I had an issue with condition and language/terminology. Turned into a nightmare with the seller that was so bad the owner of Delcampe stepped in and forced the return. He almost never intervenes he told me. I never ordered anything from Delampe again.
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Posted 10/08/2019   4:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Aren't the C-3a stamps considered MNH? They are all penciled in the back.

Jack
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Australia
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Posted 10/08/2019   6:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gumtree55 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you to everyone for your replies. The whole thing is clear as mud as expected.

I won't pursue the issue with the writing on stamps. There were other defects in the order not described here plus several items missing from the order so I am going through PayPal for resolution for these. As one respondent noted Delcampe is very hands-off when dealing with transaction issues.

Most sellers on Delcampe are good but I have had issues with a couple of people and did not get any joy from the management there. At the end of the day there is not a huge amount of money involved.

My philosophy is that I will buy from anyone once.
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Canada
411 Posts
Posted 10/08/2019   9:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The puffery in descriptions - which I've seen on all of eBay, Hipstamp, Delcampe - from some vendors is what irks me the most. Some vendors put "VERY FINE!!!" or the like on every stamp listing, including many that have obvious condition issues from the pic. That kind of sales hyperbole is an immediate no buy signal to me.
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Posted 10/08/2019   11:24 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
my 2c - NH doesn't just mean never had a hinge on it, it means as issued, no type of disturbance including pencil
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Posted 10/09/2019   02:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add archerg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The pencil ms is probably reversible, as intended. My two cents says that the seller was correct in description.

A note on back is often helpful.

Perhaps someone from an expertizing body would like to comment.
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Posted 10/09/2019   4:41 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'd refer to these as "unmounted mint" (the UK equivalent of "mint never hinged"), but refer to any other factors - writing, toning, wrinkling etc. But, in the case of relatively small lots - i.e. not many hundreds - I'd show the front and back of the stamp in any case.
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Posted 10/09/2019   6:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
gmot,

Sad to say that mis-classifying stamp condition is an easy way to charge more. When called out, it boils down to opinion.

Jack Kelley
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