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Here We Go Again With The Colors

 
 
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Valued Member

54 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   03:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add justme to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
One of my biggest problems is determining the difference in colors. One, the Great Britain 113, is carmine rose and the 113a is vermilion. I Googled the two colors and according to the examples this looks like the vermilion. I looked at the two in Hipstamp and don't see a difference in the stamps. Carmine rose is a dusty gray rose according to one site.
So again I am stumped on color along with many other red stamps I have.
Thanks
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Valued Member
United States
266 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   08:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGVIStamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It really helps if you accumulate a number of stamps rather than just a couple when sorting the colors. In terms of old Great Britain stamps, you also have the problem that there were typically more printings than are listed in the catalogs. Also it really helps with mint stamps that have not been climatized. Used stamps can lose some of their color characteristics by being soaked and also in terms of how they are treated in the mail.

All that considered, you might want to get a Stanley Gibbons Stamp Colour Key (see image below). It is not a perfect match for your stamps, but it will help you discern the difference in colors of stamps from their catalog.

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Learn more about King George VI stamps at www.KGVIStamps.com
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1792 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   09:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What Scott calls vermilion for this stamp is more what most people would call scarlet to scarlet vermilion. The first two examples here are Scott 113a (SG 199):
https://www.theswedishtiger.com/gb/K30.html

Now compare the green colors on that site with your stamp. Your green is heavily faded, since for this issue, green is fugitive/soluble in water, which happened when soaked to remove backing paper. So are the red colors to a certain extent. Therefore shades cannot often be proven reliably in used stamps especially with this issue, the preceding Victorian issue and the later Edward VII definitives.
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France, Metropolitan
2255 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   09:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is an example I have.Color change in Straits Settlements SG 166.Green and Red/yellow.
Light yellow paper.

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Valued Member
54 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   12:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add justme to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So which one is this one? I put stamps on the market with eBay and Hipstamp. I don't want to call it something that is not and get buyers angry at the same time I wouldn't want to sell it as a 113 and it's a 113a which is worth much more. Here is a photo of another one I have.
The green is a more bluish grey and the red is a bit mare dull like the rose color.

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Valued Member
54 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   12:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add justme to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Can you tell by the photos if they are the "a" veriety or no.
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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
2255 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   2:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like carmine rose
___________________________________________
Scott lists the (a) type as green & vermillon:


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Edited by perf12 - 10/15/2019 2:49 pm
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United States
1792 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   4:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would agree that the second stamp shown is Scott carmine rose. The green there is also faded slightly including a washed out spot below the value tablet.

I am very disappointed that you didn't look at the link provided and did not make your own determination of the color of either stamp; Swedish Tiger is quite the expert. I would say the first stamp is not in (Scott's) vermilion. You are missing the big picture: the green is faded without question so is not the value tablet color altered as well? Neither color can be trusted in your examples, in other words.

As a faded, off-center stamp with a heavy cancel, I doubt the first stamp is worth even 10% of catalog. The FB lozenge killer has a little merit on its own, but most collectors would only keep the stamp as a reference or space filler until a better one comes along. The second stamp has a stain spot and small creases and is similarly devalued. All the singles and sets on eBay, etc. that are faded have probably sat and will sit there for ages unless bought by an unknowing newbie who will regret the purchase once they discover they have bought damaged stamps. A hard lesson learned and perhaps a collector lost.

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Edited by hy-brasil - 10/15/2019 4:54 pm
Valued Member
United States
142 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   9:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with hy-brasil. The link he provided is a terrific tool, especially for questions of color. You should take the time to study it. KGVIStamps also offers good advice. Color distinctions are a perpetual problem for everyone, but he mentions some helpful techniques. Asking others to look at a scan and decide for you isn't one of the best.
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54 Posts
Posted 10/16/2019   12:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add justme to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I did look at the link and studied it. It gave me a bit of understanding but was confused at the fact that some are scarlet and none of them are vermilion. If the examples were those indicated in the scott catalog which are carmine rose and vermilion, I wouldn't have had to ask the question again. I already understand the condition aspects and the degrading of stamps with flaws. That is a given. I just want to start learning the colors better so I know what to list them as.
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France, Metropolitan
2255 Posts
Posted 10/16/2019   08:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's understandable.Anglo-saxons (British) use the word Scarlet more often than Vermillon.
In French ,Scarlet color would be the word (Ecarlate),which is just a bright red.
Vermillon (red with a tinge of orange) color is well known for the 1F Ceres French stamp.
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Valued Member
United States
266 Posts
Posted 10/16/2019   08:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGVIStamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Since you are not sure about the color, I would suggest that when you list it for sale put a range of catalog numbers that are possible rather than try to actually identify it yourself. Let the bidders decide for themselves. That way you won't be misrepresenting it. When you get a few more copies try comparing them, but look for stamps that are not heavily cancelled so they are closer to the original color when they were printed.
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Learn more about King George VI stamps at www.KGVIStamps.com
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