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Horse / Mule Cancel ?

 
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Posted 11/11/2019   05:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Mike33 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Good morning

This 114 has an interesting cancel that I can't find it in the stampsmarter database. It almost looks like the kicking mule but it's reversed and doesn't quite match up.

This is the best pic I have at the moment as it hasn't arrived yet

any ideas?


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Posted 11/11/2019   07:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gettinold to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mike33

Real or not it is really an eye catching cancel.
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Posted 11/11/2019   6:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The US "Kicking Mule" on Canada
Lacelle pdf 49 2008
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Posted 11/18/2019   8:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mike33 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have the stamp in hand now so here's a better pic and am still trying to figure out this cancel.

The tail looks a little different than the kicking mule and of course, it's facing the opposite direction.

Anyone have any leads on this one?

Thanks


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Posted 11/18/2019   8:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have to wonder if it is genuine. There appears to be a light cork cancel beneath it.
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Posted 11/18/2019   9:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmm! Rogdcam, now that you have mentioned it, I can clearly see an an overall light cancel. And in my opinion I wonder if it could have been cleaned or faded and covers a lot of the stamp, and a good part of it in front of the engine.
I wonder if someone is having fun with a "stampin it up" set of animal stamps. The kind to be found in several craft stores these days.

Edit: added not to be negative but for clarity : "in my opinion"
Also the image looks like it was made from a metal or rubber stamp that was all criss-cross cut and not solid like the other.
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Edited by No1philatelist - 11/18/2019 10:02 pm
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Posted 11/18/2019   10:19 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
the criss-cross is due to the grill in the stamp paper
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Posted 11/18/2019   10:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Never even thought of grille. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Posted 11/18/2019   11:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the criss-cross is due to the grill in the stamp paper


That's the first thing I noticed, completely missed the Pmk underneath.........

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Posted 11/18/2019   11:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Also..Your stamp cancel is kicking higher than the authentic cancel..Just a thought.

Robert

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Posted 11/19/2019   03:50 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also..Your stamp cancel is kicking higher than the authentic cancel..Just a thought.


Robert's image shows the USA stamp reversed, but the key characteristic is that the original posters mule is facing left (the known kicking mule cancel always faces right).
Don
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Posted 11/19/2019   04:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
First of all, let's dispose of the notion that this has anything to do with the famous kicking mule cancel, used by several offices and quite well recorded. That device was originally a commercially made one and a duplex cancel, so a strike typically shows a bit of the CDS portion. That is first recorded used in 1880, way too late and extremely unlikely on an 1869 issue. There is an officially made version of that killer (alone) used in Port Townsend to accomodate collector requests when the earlier devices wore out. The cancel device maker is known and it is known these were ordered from a printed catalog.

With the lighter parts evident, I don't think this has much hope to be genuine. The only test I think you can do is examine the cancel under blacklight/UV, both long and short. If the mule glows brightly, it's a very modern ink and a forged cancel. If the mule glows or reacts differently than the gray parts (suspected original cancel), then it is also not a genuine cancel. If thought genuine at that point, submit it for a certificate as the true experts have better analytic tools than we do.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 11/19/2019 04:34 am
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Posted 11/19/2019   06:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There is an officially made version of that killer (alone) used in Port Townsend

Any help?
Source unknown, from 2011

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Posted 11/19/2019   06:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
http://chronicle.uspcs.org/pdf/Chro..._80/6884.pdf
That's one of the originals, the third and last. See table 1.

Source is Siegel Auctions, sale number 1003 (December 2010):
https://siegelauctions.com/lots.php...3&page_no=28
other examples are here.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 11/19/2019 07:06 am
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Posted 11/19/2019   07:03 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is one I have in my collection, I thought it a bit suspect (crisp strike, poor quality stamp, additional lighter cancel?) but got a clean cert.
Don

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Posted 11/19/2019   07:40 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don, clean cert from which expertizing body?
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