I Have Questions On These Two Stamps Which May Be Die Proofs Used For Postage?

Here are a couple of stamps I have had for decades and have never really ascertained what they are. Opinions would be appreciated.
I show the stamps backs as well and the paper is what I thought was hard white, but may be something different. Thank you.





I am not sure why the images are being posted horizontally as my photo orientation as down loaded is vertical.

Thank you for the reorientation.

Bank Note era stamp can have very large margins (typically called 'jumbos'). These were often trimmed of their perforations to make 'imperfs'. Here is an example (image courtesy of member essayk)


Don

Chipshot

I know these are known imperf. Tried to find it again in Scott 1840-1940 and the Specialized Catalog from 2005 but haven't had any luck. I have come across it in the past though. Don't have an example of the 10 cent but do have the 2 cent. So let me take this opportunity to put my 2 cents into this thread.





The paper is not typical on this stamp.

They were imperf essays and proofs but these will not be found postally used. In my opinion the stamps above are jumbos with the perfs trimmed off.
Don

Accepting my deteriorating eyesight, there appear to be hints of perfs on the right -hand side of the first 2c, at the right base of the second and at the top right of the 10c.

Before the 1960s or so, collectors weren't particularly concerned about jumbo margins, but with centering. With Scott listing imperf pairs, American Bank Note issues with large margins would have perfs cut off to try to imitate imperf singles. This is the reason why Scott insists on listing imperfs in pairs.

That Don and Randy have examples readily at hand is telling, I think. Jumbos often come from margin positions and so would typically be straightedged. Note all trimmed examples shown above have one gigantic margin, which is the sheet margin. That makes you ignore the fact that the other margins are not necessarily full or showing part of the adjacent stamp.

GeoffHa


Never noticed that nick on the bottom right. Very well may be the remains of a perf. I was on the fence about this stamp but no longer. Thanks.

My thanks to all for the observations and history lessons. Using the magnification with your assistance certainly has me understanding and in total agreement here.

An older post about imperf. bank notes
http://goscf.com/t/27325