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Identify This US Stamp 70d Or 78c With Thin Paper?

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Posted 12/26/2019   3:31 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

click image to see larger resolution

A person emailed me some images; all stamps shown here have certifications. I combined four images sent into a single image.

The standard disclaimers regarding stamp images and colors applies;
- you are looking at images, not stamps
- you have little of idea of the ambient lighting or the way the images were generated or saved
- you cannot be sure that your computer and monitor are displaying them accurately
- since these were not scanned all at once, be careful about making color assumptions between them
Don
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Posted 12/26/2019   3:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Chipshot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much. Great stamps and scans.
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Posted 12/26/2019   5:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When clicked on for larger resolution, all four show 70b. Got it, one image Tried to open four different.
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Edited by littleriverphil - 12/27/2019 09:09 am
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Posted 12/26/2019   5:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Shows all four on my screen when enlarged.
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Posted 12/26/2019   8:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJack2271 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don from the images you listed, my stamp must be 70d as that is the closest match with mine.
Your image display may tell you different as you vote in the poll.
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Posted 12/29/2019   1:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJack2271 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I found another PF certified 70b Steel Blue stamp on eBay that looks like mine but seems to have thicker paper.

Not sure why the certification is taking so long.




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Posted 12/29/2019   2:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add funcitypapa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Curious as to how you can tell the thickness of the paper by a picture on eBay?
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Posted 12/29/2019   3:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rwoodennickel to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Paper thickness may sometimes be observed by the way paper looks when perfs are separated. In original photo, the perf tips are not stringy. They are fairly clean breaks. On a thicker paper, perf separation can be somewhat more "stringy for lack of better term"
I am not where I can upload a photo to show this.
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Thanks,
Robert
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Posted 12/29/2019   5:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJack2271 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes as rwoodennickel points out on thicker paper the separated perf tips are clean breaks. The separated perfs on my 70 stamp are "stringy". Of course I am speculating here and not certain by any means it is hard paper but what 70b steel blue was engraved on "thin paper"?.
.
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Posted 01/01/2020   1:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJack2271 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To answer my own question, I submit this used 70d from SIEGEL auction with its description stating:

24c Pale Gray Violet, Thin Paper (70d). Near perfect centering with unusually wide margins, the delicate early shade on thin crisp paper, razor-sharp strike of large green 6-ring target cancel
EXTREMELY FINE GEM. AN EXTRAORDINARY STAMP THAT COMBINES ONE OF THE RAREST 1861 SHADES WITH A TRUE GREEN CANCEL -- IN SUPERB FLAWLESS CONDITION.

The 24c Pale Gray Violet shade, Scott 70d, comes from an early 1861 printing on thin paper, a characteristic shared by the Violet and Steel Blue stamps. Scott 70d's rarity has been more widely recognized in recent years. This stamp, cancelled by a large 6-ring target in deep green ink, is incalculably rare. While we must always allow for the possibility of another example, it requires great imagination to envision another superbly-centered 24c Pale Gray Violet in sound condition, cancelled in green. This is not an offering likely to duplicated.

With 1988 P.F. certificate

Scott catalog: $3,350
Realized: $14,000

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Posted 01/01/2020   1:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJack2271 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In SIEGEL description I read that Scott 70b Steel Blue was printed
on thin crisp (hard) paper as I was told.

" Pale Gray Violet shade, Scott 70d, comes from an early 1861 printing
on thin paper, a characteristic shared by the Violet and Steel Blue stamps."

So my stamp could be unused 70b !
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Posted 01/01/2020   3:33 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply





We all hope that you have found rare stamp but going on for pages and pages is not really productive. When the cert come back please let us know how it turns out.
Don
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Posted 01/10/2020   09:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJack2271 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just a quick update on certification.
This 70 stamp has been sent out to
another expert this week. Even the
Experts are having hard time with
identification of this stamp after 2 months.
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Posted 01/10/2020   10:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And this demonstrates the problematic aspect of collecting the shades/colors of certain issues. If making a positive ID is so difficult that a body of experts can not reach a conclusion even with all of the technology at their disposal what is the value of the opinion at the end? Of course most of this stems from the catalog publishers going down this road in the first place by making the decision, prompted by people with a vested interest, to assign a distinct catalog number to these issues. If the call is that close is it worth the extra dollars to possess the stamp? I would be uncomfortable doing so given that down the road more technological advances may very well void the opinion.
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Posted 01/10/2020   11:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Chipshot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am pleased that the discussion continues as I believe many of us who are not as knowledgeable may gain a better appreciation for the difficult distinctions in these rare stamps. The contributions/opinions offered are helping me understand the situation in today's environment. Thank you all.
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