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Is It A Franklin Type Ic Or A Ib Or Something Else

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Posted 12/05/2019   11:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Dan Townsend to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello every one;
I have a new stamp and I dont really know what to call it. So I ask for help to get the stamp Identified .I think it maybe a 6b type Ic or it could be a Ib but I may be wrong ,it could be something totally different.I like the way it has a nice margin except for the top, oh well you cant have everything.
The cancel is pretty interesting red it was noted as a San Fransisco Cancel,it looks almost like it was done twice .
Thank you all


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Edited by Dan Townsend - 12/05/2019 11:03 pm

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Posted 12/06/2019   12:19 am  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dan, to be a type 1b or 1c, it would have to have at least one full plume on the bottom of the stamp. Yours doesn't have a full plume on either side, but it does look like the bottom curve of the oval is recut. if either the top or bottom curve is recut, it would be a Type IV, #9. Also looks like the very bottom where you can see the curve from the line of the stamp below, it is also probably recut.

If you magnify the image, you'll see where the curves were recut by hand into the plate after the image was transferred via the transfer roll. Sure sign of a Type IV.

Question-- what made you think it was either a Type 1b or 1c? Just curious.

BTW, you'll only find full plumes on the bottom right or or left on a Type 1 (both full)(#5 or #18), Type 1a (both full)(#6 or #19), Type 1b (#5A- one full plume, very rare stamp) or Type 1c (#6b or 19b- both with a full plume on the left, and a partial plume on the right).

Hope this helps....Ray
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Posted 12/06/2019   01:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Ray;
Thanks for the help here are examples why I thought this was my first thought, maybe what I thought it should be.
I used the "scott's catalog" and the "Identification guide to us stamp" here are some pic's.
The first stamp was the type Ib the second was the type II
.
http:
//www.theswedishtiger.com/6b-scotts.html
I think it was the oval around franklin and the bottom leaf that were not fully drawn and the full top oval but mostly the bottom leaf on the oval.
What you are saying about it being a type IV Im looking at the my ID guide it has a complete leaf on the bottom and the top leaf or decorations are all solid
lines not like mine .I dont think they are much help with these picture's I could make a picture of it and show you.

I do see the re cuts AT THE BOTTOM


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Posted 12/06/2019   04:54 am  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ray is correct... Type IV. The cancel is an NYC carrier cancel.
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Posted 12/06/2019   05:16 am  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Strange that you "have" this new stamp when I am finding it in my daily eBay search and it is located in West Virginia and not California! It is also identified correctly by the seller.
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Posted 12/06/2019   10:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Sinclair;
I believe you are right this is good to know.
I just bought this stamp from a dealer on eBay from west Virginia a couple of days ago.
Thanks for your help.
Dan
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Posted 12/06/2019   11:29 am  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I see. An apparent double listing or what have you.
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Posted 12/06/2019   1:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I dont know anything about that is it on eBay
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Posted 12/06/2019   5:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I guess it could be a forgery fake cancel.
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Edited by Dan Townsend - 12/06/2019 5:55 pm
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Posted 12/06/2019   8:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That is a well known NYC 2c drop + carrier fee cancel as was mentioned.
This stamp was clearly used on cover in a pair to pay the 2c rate prior to mutilation.
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Posted 12/06/2019   9:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It has a Paid cancel is it worth $2500.00 like scott's catalog mentioned in it, a little hard to see.
I kinda wonder about cancels and the ease of counterfeiting.
You are right about this stamp being on a cover that would be even harder I would think.
Thanks txstamp for your input.
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Posted 12/07/2019   1:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have a interesting look I did using photo shop with the cancel.
It brings out the color.


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Posted 12/07/2019   1:36 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To bring out cancels you should split the color channels or simply use RetroReveal.
http://stampsmarter.com/learning/Ho...oReveal.html

Don
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Posted 12/07/2019   2:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Don
I will try that, I always thought their must be a way to split colors with photo shop.
I also tried my blacklight not so good. I tried different color filters for my digital camera to manipulate the colors bring out the red from the dark back ground not so good.
I can see the red ,but its not very clear like I think you can make.
I think finding ways and technique to reveal secrets on the stamp are part of the challenge's that keep me excited about collecting stamps a little science a little
Indiana Jone's just looking for treasure.
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Posted 12/07/2019   2:55 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When manipulating images, avoid filters which 'add' data to the image (i.e. sharpen, saturate, rotate, etc.) since the algorithm moves you away from what the stamp actually looks like. But subtracting data from the image can sometimes assist in seeing things. In this case, splitting out ('subtracting' data) the color channels may isolate the red cancel.
Don
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Posted 12/07/2019   4:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dan Townsend to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I did a few pic's with the Retro Reval here is what I got .I was "surprised".

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