Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Challenge - Non-philatelic Sydney 1828 Cds - Can You Identify The Source?

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member
Australia
256 Posts
Posted 12/13/2019   11:39 pm  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Sometimes circular datestamps are 'on piece' or documents that are non-philatelic but certainly interesting.

This is one such item, found on a document online, that so resembles a postmark that it might be of interest to members here.

I will reveal the document type after some time has passed for members to add their guesses/knowledge as to the source:

Send note to Staff
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.

Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
28064 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   12:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No idea here.
Australia in 1828
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1299 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   01:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The first two possibilities that popped into my head were a convict Ticket of Leave or a NSW Lands Office document, but I'm not sure if the latter was even in existence in 1828.

Edit: It's the first Sydney datestamp. See White p.43.

That said, I'm wondering if FDS has found this marking on a non-postal article.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 12/14/2019 01:47 am
Valued Member
Australia
256 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   03:18 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Non-postal is correct, Bobby De La Rue.
Your first guess is on the right track.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
Edited by fairdinkumstamps - 12/14/2019 03:19 am
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1299 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   03:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A postal/money order perhaps?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Australia
256 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   04:45 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The first Sydney datestamp, as identified by Bobby De La Rue - but what document is it used on?

A little more.....
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
28064 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   05:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Found it, but will not spoil the thread.
Not the first datestamp BTW the first was 16th February.
(thereby creating the very first FDC)
Interesting, was a first for me.............
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Australia
256 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   05:13 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Further consideration of this historical page and the timing of the first Sydney datestamps leads me to considering that perhaps this page wasn't 'within' the documents as I first thought (the canceller merely used to date the official document) but perhaps folded on the outside of the contents and posted between the destinations shown.

i.e. contrary to my first post - in fact postal?

In the Bruce collection, he notes that he had not seen any of these cancellations prior to 1829.

This may well be the earliest recorded. (Edited after seeing Rod222's post above)

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
Edited by fairdinkumstamps - 12/14/2019 05:15 am
Valued Member
Australia
256 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   05:23 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A name provides another clue...

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
Edited by fairdinkumstamps - 12/14/2019 05:39 am
Valued Member
Australia
256 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   05:46 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice watermark...
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
28064 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   3:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
i.e. contrary to my first post - in fact postal?


The source I found were all postal, and from 1 source (I think)
Lovely watermark.


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rod222 - 12/14/2019 3:52 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1299 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   4:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Something to do with the courts or police. The straight line Bathurst postmark is intriguing. It's also from the same year Bathurst Post Office was opened. The PO in those days was conducted out of the police office.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Australia
256 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   6:13 pm  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A second watermark.

The biggest clues from this sheet, as to the contents within, are the time period, the horizontal and vertical lines seen through the paper and the signature.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1299 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   6:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Convict returns?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Australia
256 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   6:36 pm  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Convict - yes.
Returns - no.

Frederick A. Hely
Superintendent of Convicts


Now what other documents about convicts might be set out with these lines?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
Edited by fairdinkumstamps - 12/14/2019 6:40 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1299 Posts
Posted 12/14/2019   6:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes I'd worked out Hely. Might the signature in Rod's image be Nicholas Devine?

So if not returns or tickets of leave, might it be marriage banns? Records of assignment? Savings bank ledgers? Punishment records? Disembarkation records?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 12/14/2019 7:12 pm
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2020 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.5 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05