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Old Penny Red Cover From England

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Valued Member

Sweden
112 Posts
Posted 12/17/2019   05:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add ubiyca to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi! I was wondering if somebody can idenfity which part of England this cancellation "51" is from and what a cover like this would be worth?
Best regards, Dan
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Edited by ubiyca - 12/17/2019 05:47 am

Pillar Of The Community
France
2217 Posts
Posted 12/17/2019   05:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add vayolene to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Edited by vayolene - 12/17/2019 06:01 am
Valued Member
Sweden
112 Posts
Posted 12/17/2019   06:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ubiyca to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ah, thanks a lot! This site is new to me.
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United States
10455 Posts
Posted 12/17/2019   06:19 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Australia
35190 Posts
Posted 12/17/2019   06:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
13 Bar "51" in a Diamond Postmark,
is used at the City of London. Circa 1855

Barton on Humber is a Barred 3-1-1-3 Oval, 51 with no Diamond.
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Edited by rod222 - 12/17/2019 06:35 am
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3137 Posts
Posted 12/17/2019   07:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree, it's a London "Inland Section" head office postmark.

It's a pity the French postmarks are so faint.

The black "ANGL." CDS is probably "ANGL. / AMB. CALAIS" or something similar.
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Nigel
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2014 Posts
Posted 12/17/2019   2:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The value of the cover would be nominal. The PD strike in red was applied in France I'd say.
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France, Metropolitan
3325 Posts
Posted 12/17/2019   3:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Could you show the letters contents.Paul Desgrand (1799-1878) père & fils was a french industrial. In 1862 70% of silk was imported from London.Desgrand was affiliated with British silk companies in the far east….
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Valued Member
Sweden
112 Posts
Posted 12/19/2019   07:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ubiyca to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Oh really? Very interesting story, had no clue about who the guy was.

Unfortunately my mobile phone is broken at the moment so I cannot take a picture, the picture on the letter itself is the sellers picture.
However it's written in french, and at the bottom of the letter its three sections with numbers, e.g. "20/48", 15/29" and so on. Doesn't seem to be dates or anything like that.

I will get back to this and follow up when I'm able to get a picture or two.
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Edited by ubiyca - 12/19/2019 07:58 am
Valued Member
United Kingdom
10 Posts
Posted 04/20/2020   6:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mozzerb to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Value would probably not be much if this was an inland cover ... but a usage to France is another matter. There looks to be a red manuscript '4', which was the rate to France 1855-70 -- so paid in cash at the head office, with the 1d stamp being for a late fee (the rule was that late fees had to be paid in stamps to stop the clerk pocketing them!).

Late fee covers of this type aren't great rarities but they aren't common either, and this looks to be a fine clean example. £30-40 retail would be my estimate, so probably about £20 on eBay. (That's based on the stamp being from an ordinary plate.)
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Valued Member
Sweden
112 Posts
Posted 12/05/2021   11:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ubiyca to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Also got this cover. Grossly cut on top, but seems not to have been cancelled and sent away at all, maybe because of the deep cut I don't have a clue. Or maybe someone applied this stamp on another letter seperately, but I got it for £1. Maybe it's worth zero, who knows.

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Edited by ubiyca - 12/05/2021 11:15 am
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
6389 Posts
Posted 12/05/2021   11:41 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
At a guess, addressed, stamped, but never sent. hello
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Valued Member
Sweden
112 Posts
Posted 12/05/2021   11:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ubiyca to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, probably.

How would one grade this kind of stamp. Is it considered mint without gum (if you soak it off), or as used? (despite not being cancelled)
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Edited by ubiyca - 12/05/2021 11:50 am
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
6389 Posts
Posted 12/05/2021   12:02 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here, without gum, but uncancelled, it would be called "unused".
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2014 Posts
Posted 12/05/2021   4:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
At a guess, addressed, stamped, but never sent


Agreed.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
360 Posts
Posted 12/05/2021   5:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Noocassel to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Being cut into on one or more sides was almost normal. The sender was separating stamps not thinking of collectable value. I would keep it on cover.
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