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Pictures Cover From San Francisco To Hannover (German State) I Think April 1866,

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Valued Member
Netherlands
310 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   08:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
with a N York Br Pkt transit stamp, may 2?

any thought?? I cant figure out the back stamp, and the franking at 43 cents








this is a cover with a PF cert I found searching for this one






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Edited by Dutch US Stamp Collector - 01/21/2020 08:14 am

Valued Member
Netherlands
310 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   08:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
just a thought: overpaid 1 for french route via panama, but instead traveled to new york by land?
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Valued Member
Austria
151 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   08:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tommtomm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The back stamp should be "BERGE", like written in the front address. A little town in Lower Saxony (Municipal assoc. Fürstenau).
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Valued Member
Netherlands
310 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   08:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
tommtomm,

yes it is. stupid...i was making this to complicated

now the puzzle is the rate
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1851 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   10:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Your cover traveled via Prussian Closed Mail.
Aachen "Franco" indicates that it was fully paid via this treaty.
A single rate via PCM is 28c as Richard pointed out.

It certainly happens that people prepay covers assuming that they will travel via a certain mail treaty/route, and they sometimes get carried via another. I'm not 100% sure what the sender was assuming here, and I agree that a careful inspection of the cover would be warranted to make sure there are no missing or replaced stamps.

It is possible that the sender anticipated a double 21c rate and just overpaid that.

edit: I should add that the NYC transit marking on your cover shows a '7' credit, which is indicative of a paid single rate via PCM. To the left of "Aachen" appears to be a '28', which would be the single rate.
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Edited by txstamp - 01/21/2020 11:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1851 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   11:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here would be a good reference cover for this rate and route:

https://siegelauctions.com/lots.php...-745-lot-467

It is also important to nail down the year of mailing.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2367 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   11:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It is also important to nail down the year of mailing.

This may help in that effort.
The John Williams book shows the first use of a double ring San Francisco CDS with out a year was cataloged as SAF-620 and used on Jul 17 1862. That CDS measures 25.5mm 13.5mm 6L. The L is the distance between the first letter of city to first letter of state in mm.
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Valued Member
Netherlands
310 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   11:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
littleriverphil,

all the measurements are 100% as you stated
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Valued Member
Netherlands
310 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   11:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
does anyone know what period
the green achen franco was used?
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Valued Member
Netherlands
310 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   12:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
i mean blue of course
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2367 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   12:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
does anyone know what period
the green blue achen franco was used?

The Siegel link txstamp provided above shows a red boxed achen cancel on the 1864 cover
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1851 Posts
Posted 01/21/2020   12:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In a very quick, unscientific lookup, I found the blue Aachen marking in 1864, 1865, 1866 and 1867. The red one was used prior to and also concurrent with it.

I think, actually, given the markings on the cover, that it was used prior to 1868, per Richard's comments, and the rate information that he and I have provided is, therefore, correct for this time frame.

So, just refer to my initial reply in this thread.
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Edited by txstamp - 01/21/2020 1:19 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1851 Posts
Posted 01/22/2020   10:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Your cover most likely weighed between 1/4 and 1/2 ounce. That would put it at a double rate for French Treaty Mail (42c), and a single rate for Prussian Closed Mail (28c).

The sender did not endorse how he wanted the mail sent from New York, and left that open. He pre-paid it so that it could go by any steamer / mail treaty.
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Valued Member
Netherlands
310 Posts
Posted 01/22/2020   11:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you so much for all the help!!!!!!!

a very helpful SCF friend has estimated, with being rough on edges and overpaid rate,the value at 150 to 250 USD. what are your toughs?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1851 Posts
Posted 01/22/2020   11:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I will defer on price. Obviously the item has condition issues, however, it is certainly an interesting usage.

The San Francisco Cogwheel cancels are well struck, and that will help it.
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Valued Member
Netherlands
310 Posts
Posted 01/22/2020   12:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you, very gentleman like
hoping to have some opinions on price
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