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Please Help Identify Victorian Numeral Cancellation 3

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Posted 02/17/2020   11:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jason3011 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi, apologies for posting again. Had to delete the first one.

My name is Jason and I recently was given a an old book of stamps kept by my late father.

I have done a bit of research and was wondering if anyone could help identify the numeral cancellation 3 for Victorian stamp. I have looked at a few stamp forums but haven't seen any uploaded stamps with this canx number.

I believe this may be Williamstown?

Appreciate any advice

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Posted 02/18/2020   01:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The barred oval cancel #3 is Williamstown.

However, your stamp has the barred numeral cancel #3, which would make it Castlemaine.
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Posted 02/18/2020   01:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The barred oval cancel #3 is Williamstown.
However, your stamp has the barred numeral cancel #3, which would make it Castlemaine.


Forgive me Kim, I do not understand that, care to elaborate please?
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Posted 02/18/2020   02:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, Rod, I don't have pics of the cancels handy since I don't collect cancels. The early Australian States cancels came in 3 flavors (I'm ignoring duplex types), all have numbers. In order of appearance:

Butterfly Cancel -- looks kind of like a bow tie, with number centered above the bow tie
Barred Oval Cancel -- vertical oval with thick bars perpendicular to the oval edge, number in middle
Barred Numeral Cancel -- the one shown by OP, horizontal bars at top/bottom, number in middle

The post office location numbers changed with each cancel type. So if it had been a Butterfly Cancel #3, the post office would have been Seymour.

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Posted 02/18/2020   02:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Let me see if I can pilfer a pic online, I'm sure there's one somewhere...
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Posted 02/18/2020   02:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jason3011 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the response.

What year period would this be from?
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Posted 02/18/2020   02:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Pilfered pic (don't report me )


Top left is butterfly cancel.
Top right is barred oval.
Bottom row is barred numeral.
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Posted 02/18/2020   02:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry Jason3011, someone else will need to chime in regarding period of use. Not an expert and I normally don't collect cancels except for the GB numbered Maltese Cross cancels. Thanks to my number fetish + OCD, I can tell you some of the post offices for the numbers, but not the duplex types.

The barred numeral cancels were used starting in 1856 and continued to the turn of the century. The duplex type will give you a narrower year range. Hopefully someone can chime in and also explain the different duplex types.

k
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Posted 02/18/2020   02:16 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jason3011,
Your postmark is Castlemaine's third duplex, rated SS and known used from 24/3/1868 until 1870.

Source:
THE BARRED NUMERALS OF VICTORIA NEW EDITION BY HUGH FREEMAN
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https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
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Posted 02/18/2020   02:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for chiming in fairdinkumstamps! If not too complicated, could you explain/show the different duplex types. I've seen them discussed, but never saw explanations of how to ID the types, and I don't have that book.
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Posted 02/18/2020   02:36 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
khj,
A duplex is a canceller that has a datestamp and numeral (or other) obliterator loaded side by side, allowing both impressions with one strike.

There are not definitive 'duplex types', just different duplexes in the order they were used at a particular post office.

Some post offices only used one duplex. Others may have had multiple different types with different fonts and sizes of the numerals, framed or unframed datestamps etc. So the first type used for a particular office is known as first duplex, then second duplex and so on for that Post Office.
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https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
Edited by fairdinkumstamps - 02/18/2020 02:54 am
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Posted 02/18/2020   02:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK, thanks. So the numbering refers simply to the sequence of different duplex cancellers that particular post office used. Thanks again for explaining that, fairdinkumstamps!
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Posted 02/18/2020   02:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jason3011 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you fairdinkumstamps and khj for your responses. Very much appreciated
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Posted 02/18/2020   03:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Top right is barred oval.


Therein lied my curiosity, Kim.
I only knew that as a "Piecrust" cancel.
Never heard of it referred to as a barred oval.

The OP's stamp, I would know as a 3-1-1-3 Barred numeral.

"Piecrusts" (NSW)

australia post history dot com
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Edited by rod222 - 02/18/2020 03:30 am
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Posted 02/18/2020   03:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I prefer the "Piecrust Cancel" myself, Rod. But the other Australian States collectors that I encounter seem to refer to it as the barred oval. When I first ran into this, I was very confused between barred oval and barred numeral; what they called barred numeral, I would use interchangeably with barred oval.

To me, Piecrust Cancel is more intuitively obvious and easier to distinguish compared to barred oval/numeral.

Good job, Rod, now I'm hungry. Time for a midnight snack...
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Posted 02/18/2020   03:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for posting the pic of the Piecrust Cancels, Rod.

Maybe I misunderstood those Australian States collectors back in the day. Obviously I misunderstood the numbering of duplex cancels as types when it was actually just a chronological numbering for each post office.

Fairdinkumstamps, could you chime in? What is the proper or preferred terminology/nomenclature for the Victoria cancels?
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Edited by khj - 02/18/2020 03:47 am
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