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A 267c Auction Sale And The Ambiguity Of Certificates Dependent Upon Color/Shade For ID

 
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Posted 02/18/2020   6:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add rogdcam to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I was perusing today's Kelleher auction results and came upon this 267c (Lot 379) with a 2017 PSAG certificate that was sold for $5400 with BP:



https://stampauctionnetwork.com/V/V73319.cfm

The stamps value is based upon its color and it got me to researching.

I did a PF search and found that only three examples have been submitted to the PF and all three received negative certificates stating that the stamps are actually 267's.

This one piqued my interest (picture from certificate database):

http://pfsearch.org/pfsearch/pf_grd...lledfrom=lkp



I decided to search Siegel's Power Search to see if they have sold any 267c's and low and behold I find the stamp from the PF database was sold twice by Siegel in the past, once in 2011 for $3900 and once in 2013 for $3900. The stamp had a 2008 PSE certificate (Graded 80) for both sales.

https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd....nwwin=q5x74m

Now I am not casting aspersions upon any of the folks involved in certifying and selling these stamps but it raises serious issues once again about colors and shades in philately and the dangers of throwing money at same.

I wonder what the odds are that the Kelleher stamp would get a PF cert?
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Edited by rogdcam - 02/18/2020 6:37 pm

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Posted 02/19/2020   09:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As has been discussed here before it is difficult to make color judgements based on a scan. However, based on the scans on the PF website I would say that only one of those three stamps has a good chance of being a Scott 267c. The most recent one, PF 562733, is probably not, just a nice example (shade wise) of a Scott 267. The middle one, PFC 538757, is definitely not, and the oldest one, PFC 472843, looks like it could possibly be in the family. Without seeing in person it is difficult to say yes or no. It would be interesting to know what the Scott listing is based on and could it be the result of a misidentification of a Scott 279Bc? The approximate EKU for both Scott 267c and 279Bc is March 1899. Perhaps print records would show whether the Type III plates were still being used in March 1899.

The Kelleher stamp has PFC 472843 as a Scott 267
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Edited by wtcrowe - 02/19/2020 09:29 am
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Posted 02/19/2020   10:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
According to the Siegel sale, the Scott listing came about in 1999.

I wonder if there are some philatelic journal articles from around that time, explaining this, or, possibly in the Scott catalog itself?
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Posted 02/19/2020   11:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The images in this thread don't look like the correct color, but as mentioned this is perhaps a color management problem.

As far as I know the rose carmine should not show the bright orange under UV light like many other 2c colors, and there should not be the pink back as with the pink colors.
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Posted 02/19/2020   11:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wonder if there are some philatelic journal articles from around that time, explaining this, or, possibly in the Scott catalog itself?


I would follow this note in Scott prior to #248. The serialized article is extensive.

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Posted 02/19/2020   12:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"The Kelleher stamp has PFC 472843 as a Scott 267"


But it was just sold as a 267c.

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Posted 02/19/2020   12:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Kelleher stamp that was sold is the plate single; the part imprint single is the one with the PFC stating it's a 267.
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Posted 02/19/2020   12:58 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's a variation on the the theme of "buy fine and sell very fine"
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Posted 02/22/2020   09:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philazilla to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I bid on that one after my last "267c" did not get a favorable PF cert. I think this is one color variety I will skip.
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