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Need Help With Some Early Hawaiians

 
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Posted 02/20/2020   11:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add restoman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Do I have these two stamps correctly identified? I have been struggling with a 10x lens and Scotts catalogue, but would like some confirmation whether I am correct.





The left stamp clearly has the two dots in the upper right tablet near the "5". The right stamp seems to have two very faint dots in the same places. So, are these # 10 and # 9? I don't own any other copies to compare them to.

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Posted 02/21/2020   01:22 am  Show Profile Check docgfd's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add docgfd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm afraid I can't help, but I am loving the Snidely Whiplash moustache on the second stamp...
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Posted 02/21/2020   07:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These both look like #10 from the face. From the back, is there a paper color difference? The blue oval postmark is not Hawaiian and does not look familiar at all. Did Hawaii have a postal treaty with anyone else other than the US during the time period of this stamp?

EDIT: with the dots in the value tablet, these must be #9.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 02/22/2020 03:37 am
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Posted 02/21/2020   09:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add restoman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I got a chuckle out of the accidental mustache too, doc!

Hy: Here is a scan of the backs. The right one is only very slightly bluer than the left one, but then subtle differences can mean a lot.


As you can see, both stamps have some damage.
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Posted 02/21/2020   09:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scanning potential bluish papers on an orange background could help a great deal.
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Posted 02/21/2020   10:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add restoman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scanned against a sheet of "goldenrod" paper:



Here they both look bluer.
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Posted 02/21/2020   12:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Burnside Bob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Have you seen the Post Office in Paradise website? http://www.hawaiianstamps.com/index.html

Fred Gregory there may be able to help you--he lists his email address on his "Discoveries" page: http://www.hawaiianstamps.com/discoveries.html

I do have one copy of Hawaii Scott #9. The paper appears a bit bluer than your examples.

Let us know what you find out.


My #9:









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Posted 02/22/2020   03:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the back view.

Changed my mind/corrected my first post. With bluish paper and the dots in the value tablet, they have to be #9. I'm still puzzled over the blue postmark on the right stamp. Burnside Bob's stamp has a typical grid cancel.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 02/22/2020 03:35 am
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Posted 02/22/2020   12:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add restoman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Hy!

Thanks very much for the input. After more research at the site Burnside Bob recommended, plus looking at other examples for sale at HipStamp, I agree with you; what I have here is two copies of # 9. What helped convince me was seeing a copy of #8 at HipStamp on thin white paper, and seeing an example of # 10 on ordinary white wove paper there also. Both of those stamps are on paper that is clearly whiter than either of the copies that I have. By the way, I went ahead and bought this copy: https://www.hipstamp.com/listings/l...ing/31028281
of # 10 from MikeAldrich stamps on HipStamp this morning. It was only $20, and a nice clean example in relatively good shape. I have bought from Aldrich before, and trust their judgement.

I also agree that the blue cancellation is unlike any that can be seen on any of the sites. There seems little incentive to forge a cancellation on this stamp since the catalog value is the same mint or used, but getting another opinion would be helpful. So, I have decided to send it in to APS for expertizing. The $25 fee is more than I paid for the stamp a year ago, but even with the damage to the stamp, I think it will be worth getting a certificate.

Burnside Bob: Thank you very much for the link to Post Office in Paradise. I spent several hours last night looking through their wealth of information on Hawaiian stamps. I also wrote to Fred, sending him a scan, the link to this post, and asking his opinion. He declined to offer one and suggested that I send them to APS for expertizing. (I am a long-time member anyway.) He had a good point about identifying subtle color differences from scans, and measuring paper thickness. So I plan on sending the right stamp to APS, that way I can also ask their opinion of the odd blue cancellation.
Once I get it expertized I can revisit this post and let you know what APS says .

Thanks again for all of the help!
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