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S.11 With Double Upper Left Frame Lines [edited]

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Posted 03/28/2020   11:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add banknoteguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I think this is an S.10 -- Orange Brown. Can anyone confirm? Also I note there are doubled (recut?) frame lines at the upper left corner. Is this enough to tell what plate this is from? What postion on the plate?


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Edited by banknoteguy - 03/28/2020 1:41 pm

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Posted 03/28/2020   12:33 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have time to plate it for you but I can tell you that it is a Type I, Scott #11 from Plate 4 and is a B-relief position.
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Posted 03/28/2020   12:35 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This would be a good stamp for you to try plating yourself. There is probably only one B-relief position on Plate 4 like it.
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Posted 03/28/2020   12:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add banknoteguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK, thanks for the info. I will try plating it myself!
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Posted 03/28/2020   1:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add banknoteguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
65R4 looks like a match to me.
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Posted 03/28/2020   2:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add banknoteguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sinclair2010 said,
Quote:
Scott #11 from Plate 4


How did you "know" it was Plate 4?

Would you call this color Orange Red? Looked Orange Brown to me, that's why I initially thought it was an S.10 but which plate it was from did not jump out at me. What characteristics pointed to Plate 4?

When I look at it the cross hatching is strong and regular, the head and hair detail sharp which along with the color seemed to point at S.10. Where did I go wrong?
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Posted 03/28/2020   4:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How did you "know" it was Plate 4?


I can't speak for Winston but I thought the same thing at first glance.

My reasoning is, Type I stamps with a faint left frame line and a heavy bottom frame line are often Plate 4 stamps.
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Posted 03/28/2020   6:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Additionally you often see heavy recutting of the top label block particularly above postage.
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Posted 03/28/2020   7:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add banknoteguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great, those are both useful things to look for. Thick bottom line and thin left frame line are straightforward. I am new to this so not entirely sure what heavy recutting at top looks like.

Here is another S.11 (I presume) with a thick bottom frame line and light left frame line. Plate 4 candidate? Also note the left frame line continues above the stamp like the Type III perforated ones I think? Probably something that will let me figure out the plate position for this one also. And is that a guide dot in the lower right corner??


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Posted 03/28/2020   8:11 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Plate 4 stamps usually exhibit three distinct characteristics, all of which have already been mentioned. A faint left frame line coupled with a heavily recut bottom frame line and a heavily recut upper label block that is never accompanied by recutting of the upper right diamond block.

The recutting if the upper label block in your second stamp is quite visible Northeast of the E of "POSTAGE".
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Posted 03/28/2020   8:14 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So, yes, the second stamp is from Plate 4 and that is indeed a guide dot at LR corner.
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Edited by sinclair2010 - 03/28/2020 8:15 pm
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Posted 03/28/2020   8:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add banknoteguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the interesting comments. I am still not sure I understand what recutting "northeast of the E of POSTAGE" means. Does it mean the top frame line has been recut and is thicker? Or does it mean that the right end of the top label block has been reshaped? Or something else?


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Edited by banknoteguy - 03/28/2020 8:34 pm
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Posted 03/28/2020   8:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's an image I took from the USPCS plating page. Hopefully it illustrates the "recut top of the upper label" in a way that you can readily identify.


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Edited by stampcrow - 03/28/2020 8:56 pm
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Posted 03/28/2020   9:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add banknoteguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stampcrow,

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words, sometimes not. I am really not trying to be difficult but what did you want me to see in that image? That the top of the label block and upper frame line are kind of wavy rather than straight or something else altogether?
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Posted 03/28/2020   10:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry I don't have a better images to use and I'm not good at explaining these things.
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Posted 03/29/2020   2:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
banknoteguy,


Quote:
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words, sometimes not.

Although the plate 4 recutting characteristics have been identified by others, I thought it might be helpful to have them all annotated in a single image.

1. Top of upper label block heavily recut (above U.S. POSTAGE)
2. Bottom frame line usually heavy
3. Left frame line usually faint and too close to the stamp design (especially near the top), and frequently doubled

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