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Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

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Posted 01/27/2022   10:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Sinclair --

Your "reminder" is very insightful -- as I had not thought of that.

As you can probably tell from most of my postings here, my main interest is in plating, not postal history -- so your comment is much appreciated.

When I write it up, I think I will simply note that it is a duplex barred oval (i.e., ellipse) of the Banknote period attributed to Philadelphia, PA despite the stamp being demonetized in August 1861 -- and will not make any comment as to the usage.

Like rogdcam previously stated -- I would give a lot to see the cover that stamp was on -- but alas, we will never know.

Thanks again for your insight.

Regards // ioagoa
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Posted 02/01/2022   10:06 am  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm attempting to plate this but I'm not a plater and pretty clueless. Am I at least right that this is a relief A?


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Posted 02/01/2022   11:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi rlsny --

Yes -- you are correct that your stamp is an A relief.

I plated it -- and can reveal the position if you like -- or, if you want to give it a go-around, I can confirm it for you. A couple of comments to get you started --

-- Based on your scan, color and impression appear OB (i.e., Scott #10A) -- not a definitive ID -- but close enough that I would start the hunt on the OB plates.

-- The adjoining stamp at left shows a very strong recut horizontal line across the top of the URDB -- and in my experience -- is most characteristic of plates 2E and 0. Again -- not definitive -- but strong enough that those are the first 2 plates where I would start looking.

-- The LFL on your stamp is a great example of "recut #24" -- LIL running down too far -- and this is a "stand out feature" you can use as a plating aid. Likewise, the LFL also runs up pretty high -- but whether Chase would have classified this as "recut #23 (i.e., LIL running up too far), is debatable as it stops at a level roughly opposite the center of the ULR -- and Chase generally did not call a "recut #23" unless the LIL ran up noticeably higher than a level opposite the center of the ULR.

-- Once you land on a tenatative position -- you should nail it down by checking all other plating characteristics -- including the RIL/RFL relationship of the adjoining stamp at left.

Again, I am happy to reveal the position -- or to confirm your plating.

Regards // ioagoa

edited to correct spelling and grammar
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Edited by ioagoa - 02/01/2022 11:06 am
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Posted 02/01/2022   11:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Moyock13 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Gotta love these bread crumbs!
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Posted 02/01/2022   12:19 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks ioagoa - I'm going to give it a shot
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Posted 02/01/2022   12:46 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK, the best one I found was 58L2E - I got more convinced when the second best candidate I found was 58L2L. Any chance I got it right?
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Posted 02/01/2022   1:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi rlsny --

Yep -- 58L2E is confirmed -- which makes your stamp a Scott #10A -- and, as previously noted, a very nice example of recut #24 -- LIL runs down too far.

As an aside -- in terms of separating Plate 2 Early versus Late state on your stamp -- if you look at that recut horizontal line across the top of the URDB of the adjoining 57L2E on your stamp, it is strong and complete for its entire length. Then compare it to the examples of 57L2L on both stampplating and stampsmarter -- and you can see how the re-entry when 2E became 2L flattened and blurred the recut -- almost wearing half of it away. In any event -- your stamp is definitely Early state -- as I see no signs of re-entry whatsoever.

Regards // ioagoa
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Posted 02/01/2022   4:22 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I really appreciate your help. What's a good place to look for all the recut variety types like #23 and 24? I need a cheat sheet.
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Posted 02/01/2022   5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Brian O'Doherty's website (stampplating.com) has a ton of info. Recut info can be found at http://stampplating.com/recuts.

-Harper1249
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Edited by Harper1249 - 02/01/2022 5:53 pm
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Posted 02/01/2022   6:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi rlsny --

You are very welcome for the help with your 58L2E.

You wrote:


Quote:
What's a good place to look for all the recut variety types like #23 and 24? I need a cheat sheet.


There are a number of places you can go -- here are a few (and all are free):

-- The Chase book -- has chapters on the history of each of the plates -- and he does a pretty good job of listing the positions by recut variety -- but the downside is that it is not electronically "searchable" by recut variety. You can get a free copy of the book at the USPCS website under the "electronic library" tab.

-- Likewise -- Chase does a good job of noting the recuts in the margins of his plate reconstruction photos -- but again -- not electronically searchable -- and not all recut varieties are listed due to space limitations. Still -- both the book and the photos are the basic reference work on the subject. The photos can be downlaoded for free from the following website:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/natio...678765445003

-- The stampsmarter data base is searchable by recut variety as well. If you go to the 1851-57 3c Plating Initiative home page -- click on the "database" tab -- and then click on the "view by variety" tab.

-- On the stampplating website -- you can use the plating wizard - which is pretty much self explanatory. Also on the stampplating website -- under the "resources" tab -- you can download the Excel spreadsheet that is the backbone of the plating wizard. The benefit of the spreadsheet is that you can use fully functional Boolean logical operators to filter (e.g., OR, AND, AND NOT, etc., etc.) -- versus the plating wizard which is hardwired to only use the "OR" logical operator.

-- On the USPCS website -- you can search the Chronicles for articles on plating -- and there are a number of them where the recut varieties are summarized and presented in a "cheat sheet" format.

Again -- all of the above noted resources are completely free.

Regards // ioagoa

edited to add -- PS -- looks like I was typing while Harper responded to your question -- did not mean to double up!

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Edited by ioagoa - 02/01/2022 6:09 pm
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Posted 02/01/2022   7:36 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that list. I have used many of those including the Chronicle search before. My original reason for joining USPCS was to get access to their huge library. But plating has never been a focus for me and I had never been aware of the stampplating website until now. I will definitely check it out. A great list of resources. Thanks.
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Posted 02/02/2022   7:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is an interesting specimen on a cover addressed to Philadelphia.
Since the cds has "Feb 5" I figured I was dealing with an 11A from 1L, 2L or 3. Its a B relief with a LR guide dot right at the bottom right corner of the lower label block. It also has a single line recut in the ULT and the TLB and RDB are recut. After several runs through these plates I couldn't find a match but I realized that color did look kind of orange brownish. Plate 0 is described as having strong and clear recut lines so I thought i'd look there. Sure enough, 28L0 came up as a likely match. Please let me know if folks concur on that position.




From my research it looks like its possible to have Orange Brown stamps showing up on letters with Jan, Feb or Mar dates. Anything with April through June is not likely to be orange brown. If I'm correct that this is 28L0, then this letter was cancelled on Feb 5, 1852. Am I understanding this correctly?

Regards
Harper1249






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Posted 02/02/2022   10:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Harper --

I concur with your plating -- definitely 28L0.

Regarding the date of usage -- given a July 1, 1851 issue date -- all we can conclude is that the earliest it could be is Feb 1852.

Generally speaking -- most of the OB's were used up in the first few months of 1852 -- so the probability that a stamp is an OB decreases with each passing month as far as Jan through Jun dated cancels go. Still, we have all seen the occasional Scott #10 / 10A used on covers dated to later years.

Additionally, and again, generally speaking, circa 1850's -- most stamps were purchased concurrent with their use (i.e. they were generally not purchased and kept laying around until needed) -- so by that standard -- it is most probably Feb. 1852. Still, unless the cancel itself can be definitively dated -- or the cover can be dated by either docketing or enclosure -- it is impossible to say 100% for sure.

In any case, the only way to definitively classify a stamp as a Scott #10 / 10A is to plate it to one of the OB plates (i.e., 0, 1E, 1i, 2E, or 5E) -- and in the case of your stamp -- you definitely nailed it as 28L0.

Regards // ioagoa


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Edited by ioagoa - 02/03/2022 10:39 am
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Posted 02/03/2022   11:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the confirmation ioagoa on 28L0. At this point I have more 10/10A's on cover than I do individual stamps. Must... resist... urge... to.. soak... Just kidding, I wouldn't do that. What is "docketing" in this context? Is it when someone marks on the cover the date sent/received, etc.? As always thanks for sharing your knowledge and insight.

Harper
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Posted 02/03/2022   12:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Harper --

Regarding "docketing" -- your understanding is correct.

Circa 1850's -- my understanding -- is that it was not an uncommon practice (at least based on the 3c covers I have seen) -- for the recipient to annotate the cover as to the date received -- the date answered -- or both -- and these annotations are often very helpful in dating covers.

Later today, I will try to find a few covers that have been docketed in the manner described and post images.

FYI -- I am not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to postal history -- so if anybody else has more to add on the subject of docketing -- additional comments are appreciated -- as are a few sample images.

Regards // ioagoa
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