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Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

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Posted 05/15/2022   11:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Moyock13 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are two 3 cent stamps from a Philadelphia - Canada cover posted in a different thread. I have a question about the right stamp, unfortunately the left side is partially covered by the 30R2L next to it. In the right margin even with the base of George's head there is a strong dot of color, chase doesn't mention this, or at least I can't find reference to it. Could it be just an anomaly?

I have yet to plate the right side stamp, though I'm assuming it's from plate 2L as is it's left side mate. Here are the pictures.





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Posted 05/15/2022   12:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Im going to say the right stamp is 11R2L. If thats correct, Chase, Lund and SSD are not showing the spot. But several of these examples aren't very clear.

Looks to be a nice grouping on a stamped envelope.

Regards,
Harper
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Posted 05/15/2022   12:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looking for some guidance on plating this 3c Washington. January 1851 usage. B relief. Plate 1L. No apparent guide dot in the LR corner.

Thanks for any guidance and assistance.

Stan Shepp

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Edited by stanshepp - 05/15/2022 2:26 pm
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Posted 05/15/2022   12:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Haper!
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Posted 05/15/2022   2:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Moyock13 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Harper, I think you're right.

Wish your 3L7 had better ink in the upper right corner. Every time I look at your stamp I think I see guide dots! I dropped it into RetroReveal thinking it would show the guide dots better, no luck.

Stan. Very nice stamps!
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Posted 05/15/2022   3:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Moyock.
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Posted 05/15/2022   7:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Stan --

Your stamp with the black JAN 22 NY integral '3-bar' cds is position 44L1L.

GD pokes out from the LL corner of the LRDB and is covered by cancel on your stamp.

Regards // ioagoa
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Posted 05/15/2022   9:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Ioagoa!

That's what DiComo said as well.

Stan Shepp
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Posted 05/16/2022   11:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Harper --

I spent some time this evening studying your stamp with the black New York JUN 9 cds -- and I believe that it is position 3R7 (i.e., NOT 3L7).

As the two positions are very similar -- not sure if your plating was the old "left / right" transposition that we all make from time to time?

In any event -- your stamp has no inner lines and is definitely a C relief -- and the TFL is not recut -- so that eliminates all inner line plates and top row stamps from plate 4 -- and also eliminates position 2R8. That leaves only top row stamps from plates 6, 7 and 8 (with the exception of 2R8) as possibilities. Interpane C reliefs from plate 6 (and also position 21L8, the only interpane C relief on plate 8) are automatically eliminated as all of them had the TFL recut.

While your stamp is very, very similar to position 3L7 -- there are subtle differences as well -- for example -- the LFL just below the ULR is too far from the design.

Based on a process of elimination -- I believe that your stamp has to be 3R7 -- although I cannot explain why the GD does not show -- other than to punt, and say that it is due to inking, impression, and plate wear -- and that perhaps the stamp is surface worn as well.

A copy of my 3R7 is attached for additional reference. Take a look and see if you agree?

Regards // ioagoa


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Posted 05/17/2022   5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am looking for a list of green town cancels on the 3 Cent 1851 and 1857.

Chase published a list, but later a more comprehensive list was published by Ralph Payne.
(1924 AP Vol. 39, No. 3, Dec.)

Then Payne published a supplement in 1926. Not sure which issue.

I have Chase's list, but have not been able to locate the Payne articles online.

Does anyone have PDF copies of these articles?

Here is a deep green cancel from SHELBURNE FALLS, Ms.

Thanks for any assistance,

Stan Shepp



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Posted 05/18/2022   08:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ioagoa,

Thank you for the analysis. I agree with you that it is 3R7 rather than 3L7. I was focusing too much on the two small dots of color in the upper right corner and trying to find one with guide dots in those areas. I agree that the LFL of 3R7 matches up better than 3L7. It is an edge position, so perhaps the missing guid dot is due to an impression on dry paper where the ink was not "picked up cleanly" (Chase's words). Thanks again for the thorough analysis and insight.

Regards,
Harper1249
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Posted 05/18/2022   12:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Harper --

You are welcome.

As far as your question about why the GD does not show -- and the stamp being a possible "dry print" -- that is certainly a plausible explanation -- although here we have a stamp where I can see absolutely no trace of ink where the GD should be -- whereas with a dry print there is usually at least something to be seen -- albeit distorted to some varying degree as, to use Chase's words -- "the ink was not picked up cleanly" -- but here we have a stamp where, very strangely, the ink was not picked up at all.

In looking at the stamp even closer this morning -- and from the perspective of the impression -- I think there are likely a number of things going on at the same time -- one of which is a slightly dry print -- but also that the plate may have been under-inked or over wiped at the same time. Also, I think that plate wear is likely at play to some degree. In looking at your scan under high magnification -- best I can tell, the stamp does not appear to be scuffed or surface worn in the area where the GD should be -- so it is a bit of a riddle as to what happened? Again -- all of this is just a guess on my part.

In any case -- from a plater's perspective -- this is one of those stamps whereby process of elimination it cannot be anything other than 3R7 -- despite the GD anomaly. Normally, these top row stamps from plates 6 and 7 are not too tough to plate -- as they have distinctive GD's -- but take away the GD's, and in most instances, all that is left to go by are the very subtle bends in the recut FL's, and, equally important, the relative white spacing relationships of the FL's to the DB's and the FL's to the design -- and with many of these top row stamps being otherwise very, very similar -- without those GD's, as we just found out, they can be frustratingly difficult to plate (i.e., on par with A reliefs from plates 6 and 7). And -- for what it is worth -- I can say that without the GD's, positions 3L7 and 3R7 are very, very close to each other in many ways.

If this were my stamp -- I would mount it up on an album page showing varieties of impression (which can make for a nice showing) -- along with a write up as to the probable cause.

Regards // ioagoa
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Posted 05/18/2022   12:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 3R7 with a disappearing guide dot is a pretty interesting item. Guide dots are so often rock solid plating marks. They are usually punched deep enough in the plate to where they tend to be visible at least "a little bit", even on dry or under-inked prints.

I would also mount and write it up as ioagoa suggests.

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Posted 05/19/2022   7:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Guess what I am sharing today!

If you guessed that I am sharing another 3c 1851 George Washington, you were right!

This one has a unique cancel, and I do not use the term 'unique' loosely. Unique means "being the only one of its kind". Not "rare" or Super-Duper Scarce", but there is only one example. And this is it. But don't take my word for it, ask the experts!! --->

Listed on pages 22-23 in Thomas J. Alexander's 1979 edition of "Simpson's U. S. Postal Markings 1851-1861", this townmark has a rarity rating of 10 - and that means unique. If you look at the tracing for the listing, it is obvious that it is this exact stamp.

COLUMBIA CITY Ia. /WHITLEY Co. (Date)

Postal Markings Generally -
Townmark -
The regulations required that every letter be marked with the name of the town and state of origin and the date (day and month, not year) of delivery to the originating post office. This could be applied in manuscript, and was commonly so applied at small towns. Most towns of any size, however, adopted a handstamped town mark that included this information.
With very few exceptions , year dates were not included in town marks until late in 1855. By 1857 the inclusion of the year had become commonplace.

Townmarks Specifically -
Straight Line, Oval and Fancy Townmarks
Relatively few of the post offices in the United States used handstamped town marks other than circles during the period covered by this work. These non-circular town marks may be
subdivided into three general classes: Straightline, Ovals & Fancy.

Straight Lines -
The very earliest handstamped town marks used in the United States were straightlines. As time passed, these gave way to the more popular circular style, and by 1851 relatively few straight lines were still in use. Most of these were made from local printer's type. Some straightline townmarks are enclosed in a single or double lined box. Dimensions given include the full name of the town and state plus any ornamentation, the horizontal measurement being given first and the vertical measurement next, all in millimeters. If the straightline is boxed, the measurements are from the center of the outside edge of the outer line of the box to the center of the opposite edge of the box.

Columbia City, Whitley County, Indiana -
Columbia City is a city in Columbia Township, Whitley County, in the U.S. state of Indiana. The population was 9,892 (2020 Census), growing by 13% since the 2010 Census. The city is the county seat of Whitley County.
In the 1860 census, the population was only 887.

The Philatelic Foundation Expert Committee Certificate (#F233164) gives the year as 1853 and states that it is genuine, with this postmark, and that there is a "tiny corner crease at top right".

Cool cancel for someone who collects these things.
And that would include me!

Not yet plated.

Stan Shepp



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Edited by stanshepp - 05/19/2022 7:45 pm
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Posted 05/20/2022   02:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Without getting too specific, Stan, I am wondering how you obtained this unique stamp? At public auction (I haven't tried to find it on any sites? From a dealer? Someone you deal with a lot? Or, perhaps a private sale, collector-to-collector? eBay?????? Aside from its 'uniquity', it is an interesting cancel as most cancels of the era are of cds form. If you don't care to divulge, just say so - I would understand your desire for privacy on the issue.
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