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Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

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Posted 06/14/2022   12:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That is a very cool find for the stamp, cover and for the letter. Well done. Now I need to go back and look at my eBay searches and find out why this listing didn't show up.
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Edited by Harper1249 - 06/14/2022 3:55 pm
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Posted 06/14/2022   11:07 am  Show Profile Check Chipshot's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Chipshot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I guess I am breaking the rules by sharing today -
this one has perforations -

Stanshep, thanks for posting this most interesting cover, letter and the story with it.
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Edited by Chipshot - 06/14/2022 11:10 am
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Posted 06/15/2022   12:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Chipshot,

You're very welcome.
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Posted 06/21/2022   3:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This seems like where the experts are, so I'm going to break the rules again with a perforated stamp. Please feel free to redirect me if there is a better thread for this stuff.

Two copies of supposed plate flaws. I was not aware of these, but one copy shows them very lightly and the other shows them more clearly. So, not a hair on the plate for a single printing, but consistent flaws that apparently strengthened over time.



Described as -
"A flaw comprising 3 almost parallel lines on the bust and above the button extending in some cases into the tessellated work across from the medallion oval is described by students as new. There is also a mark resembling an open "C" below the button and directly over the space between the E-C of the Lower Label.
Ir is an "E" relief from an as yet undetermined plate.
As more copies are unearthed by the initial discovery, it appears this is quite likely not new at all, rather a flaw identified by Richard Cabeen many years ago.
Shown here is a recent "discovery second copy that shows the flaw much less clearly"

I am wondering about it.
Have more copies been discovered?
Do we know the plate and position?
Talk to me.

Thanks!

Stan Shepp


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Posted 06/23/2022   04:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have three of the 1851-57 imperforates. I just made new scans of them...

1851, 1¢ blue, type II; or 1852, type IV, I do not know for absolute certain. I'm thinking it's type IV...


1851, 3¢ orange-brown, type II...


1851, 12¢ black...

Incidentally, these had once belonged to my late father.

The three altogether...
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Edited by StampGuy64 - 06/23/2022 05:02 am
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Posted 06/23/2022   06:46 am  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stampguy, that really wonderful blue stamp is a Type II. The 3c stamp is most likely an 11A. You gained on one and lost on the other.
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Edited by sinclair2010 - 06/23/2022 06:48 am
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Posted 06/23/2022   11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is something cool that arrived today. The cover has seen better days but its not too bad. Its got an 11A with good impression and a single frame line on left that plates to 100L3. It's tied to the cover with a black Poughkeppsi, NY, Dec 1 cds. Its addressed to the Hon Edward Herrick in Athens, Bradford County, PA. Docking refers to a certificate of studies at Poughkeepsi College for Andrew Ross Herrick.

What's really cool is that Andrew Ross Herrick (1833-1852) was my 1st cousin 5x removed. His grandfather was Andrew Ross (~1770-1822) who was my 5th great grandfather. I recognized the Herrick surname from my own genealogy work and knew I needed to get this cover. I bought it off eBay from asianstamp out of Singapore.

Sadly it appears Andrew Ross Herrick died at the young age of 19 on October 21, 1852. Am I correct in saying that since the stamp is from plate 3, the earliest this letter could have been cancelled would have been December 1, 1852? Makes sense as it would have been just a month and a half after his death. I'm guessing color could help narrow it down but I don't have a reference set to compare it too.

Harper1249



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Posted 06/23/2022   11:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome family connection. Some day I hope to find something similar with a family connection.

Robert
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Posted 06/23/2022   11:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scott #10A
Plated as 85L1i
2nd Day of use.
EKU July 12, 1851

B relief,
Double Transfer
- visible in "THREE CENTS"
- also visible in the 2 lower rosettes
Inner line at right is extremely light (visible at top of stamp)

Chase and Lund images are less than amazing.

If anyone can verify, it would be appreciated.

That little quirky line in the UL corner seems to be on both Chase's and Lund's images.

Thanks in Advance.

Stan Shepp

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Edited by stanshepp - 06/24/2022 10:19 am
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Posted 06/23/2022   11:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi StampGuy64 -- Regarding your 3c 1851-1857 imperf -- I agree with Sinclair that it is a Scott #11A. One thing of note is that it has a black Philadelphia CDS cancel -- which was not used until mid January 1854 -- (which would be an unusually late usage for an 1851 Scott #10A -- not impossible -- but very, very late). FYI -- Prior to January 1854, Philadelphia used only blue ink for CDS cancels -- and the switch to black was very abrupt -- thus the color of the Philly CDS cancels is a very useful aid in dating usages. Your stamp looks to have a SEP 26 date in the CDS -- which would make the earliest possible date of usage Sep 26, 1854. I did not plate your stamp -- but based on the overall inking, impression, and color in your scan -- it is most likely from either plate 2L or 3 -- and FYI -- it has 1 vertical line recut in the upper left triangle.

Hi Harper -- Very nice family connection -- and happy to see that a cover purchased from a seller in Singapore actually arrived here in the USA -- as I have had much difficulty with international mailings -- almost to the point that unless from Canada or the UK -- I will not even bid anymore. To answer your question about the Dec 1 CDS -- you are correct that the earliest possible date of usage would be Dec 1, 1852 -- as the EKU for plate 3 is January 15, 1852. The other alternative is that you have a newly discovered EKU for plate 3 -- but in the absence of hard evidence to prove that out -- Dec 1852 would be the earliest possible date of usage for your cover.

Regards to All // ioagoa
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Edited by ioagoa - 06/23/2022 12:04 pm
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Posted 06/23/2022   5:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Caper123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ioagoa - is late usage an impotant point. One never knows how long a stamp may sit in someone's drawer before being used.
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Posted 06/23/2022   8:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sinclair, I'll take your word for it. I would like to know how you arrived at that. What's the distinguishing feature(s), and that the type IV lacks or a feature(s) that it has?
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Posted 06/23/2022   9:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As for the 3-cent, brown is comprised of the three primary colours: blue, red, and yellow. I can see it being an orange-brown, as I see a bit more of yellow than of the red. It is also bright to my eye. The dull red, in theory, would not allow for either. Then, I do not have a dull red imperforate of 1851, of either type. Perhaps I need to find one, or do I have one already?

I do have those similar to dull red, 3-cent perforates, if not actually dull red; all four were scanned and processed identically, and within the last few days...

I think I'll go ahead and source a "brick red" of 1851, just to be certain.

Then, was the dull red of 1851 brighter, cheerier, more orangey than the ones issued at the start of the war? The shades, and quality, of inks do fluctuate over the years.
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Edited by StampGuy64 - 06/23/2022 9:14 pm
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Posted 06/23/2022   9:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
As for the 3-cent, brown is comprised of the three primary colours: blue, red, and yellow. I can see it being an orange-brown, as I see a bit more of yellow than of the red. It is also bright to my eye. The dull red, in theory, would not allow for either.

Hi StampGuy64,

As a specialist of the 1851-57 3-cent stamp (and the originator of this topic), I fully support Sinclair's and ioagoa's assessment that your 3-cent imperforate stamp is an 11A. I'm certain of it. I agree that your stamp was printed from plate 2L or 3.

We can confirm your stamp is an 11A by plating it. If you would post an 800 DPI, or better, a 1200 DPI scan of it, we can plate it for you.

Regarding your perception of the color "in person," Scott #11/11A were printed in a wide range of colors, including orange red, which is commonly mistaken for orange brown. On my monitor, your stamp looks most likely to be orange red.

Here is a scan showing an orange brown #10A with several of the #11/11A colors for contrast:

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Posted 06/23/2022   9:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Caper -- You are correct in your statement that "One never knows how long a stamp may sit in someone's drawer before being used". In my personal opinion -- and again, this is just my opinion and others may have differing viewpoints -- in and of themselves, late usages are not that important -- but they are noteworthy -- as the usage is not contemporaneous with the issue. When it comes to the 1851 -- 1857 3c imperforates -- in my experience -- it is unusual to see an OB (i.e., Scott #10 / 10A) used much after the first quarter of 1852 -- and the farther out in time you get -- the scarcer. StampGuy64's stamp has a black Philly CDS -- so had to be used after January 1854 -- and I was just noting that as a point of interest. I suppose that such a usage may be important to some collectors based on personal preference, but not to all collectors. Likewise -- some collectors may view an 1854 usage of an 1851 issue as a collectible in its own right -- while others might view such usage as non-contemporaneous. Where the line gets drawn is a matter of personal preference.

StampGuy64 -- The difference between a Scott #10 / 10A and an 11 / 11A is determined by the plate from which the stamp came -- NOT by the color of the stamp. More specifically, Scott #10 / 10A stamps came from plates 1E, 1i, 2E, 5E, and 0 -- whereas Scott #11 / 11A stamps came from plates 1L, 2L, 3, 4, 5L, 6, 7, and 8. Consequently, the only way to 100% determine the appropriate Scott # is to plate the stamp. That said, I have been plating this issue for decades -- and I am confident that your stamp is a Scott #11A. I am away from my stamps at present -- otherwise I would plate your stamp. In the meantime -- perhaps one of the other platers who frequents this board could weigh in with the plate position -- but if not -- I will plate your stamp sometime over the next week -- which again -- based on the inking, impression, and color as per your scan -- would appear to most likely be from either plate 2L or 3 -- and thus a Scott #11A.

Regards to All // ioagoa


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